Discussion Pricing your print/jobs/installs >>MEGA Thread<<.

[Pauly]

This has been the hot topic for the last year.
So i want to create 1 thread where people can ask and others (including myself) will do the best to answer. this will save 100 new threads being created and people trying to search can find multiple answers in 1 place.


I've been working out the best way to price prints for the last year or so.
I've tried different methods, formulas, and structures, basically tweaking my method.
Reason why I've spent to much time is what we want accurate pricing for our shop. We need to know how much profit we make per job, what the stock costs it, machine time, everything broken down.
So now if i need to quote something and it's not in our product range. I can input all variables and I'll get a solid price.

I've been working on a video to teach and go though on how to create your own basic calculator - but it's coming to the point it's not so basic and been contemplating on creating a calculator and tutorial on how to use it. - this is to come in some time.

Lets try keep this thread clean and full of info for those who need it

 

[victor bogdanov]

When I need a quick way to price something I don't normally offer but want to do in house, I go to a trade printer website, see how much they charge and I know that if they can make a profit and run a business off that price then I can too because I know I have much lower overhead. I then price a bit higher than the trade printers would

 

[netsol]

For me, the biggest challenge is a product type i have not produced before. (35 years experience as a computer consultant and almost that much doing large format plotters/printers, but relatively new to many types of sign production)

I will price check signs365, but then, also staples & vistaprint to see a discounted retail price. I miss the sign contractors pocket pricing guide for a quick reference

 

[ColorCrest]

I know I have much lower overhead.

Do you believe that factor might trump their economies of scale?

 

[ColorCrest]

I've been working on a video to teach and go though on how to create your own basic calculator - but it's coming to the point it's not so basic and been contemplating on creating a calculator and tutorial on how to use it. - this is to come in some time.

If a pricing system is so complicated as to require a tutorial for its use, it’s likely to be less than ideal at the start. Can you imagine something of yours might be simplified?

 

[ColorCrest]

The models for pricing signs or practically any custom, made-to-order products are already available in the wild and can be seen at many websites and demos of those software companies offering their solutions. At this point, it’s all about presentation of the data and how best to handle both physical work flow in the shop and the work flow of the business software.

Solutions for manufacturing custom products have been around for a very, very long time but most current developers have not. They mostly are of younger generations and no longer have the help and experience of veterans in the industry, unfortunately. However, reinventing the wheel is part of what keeps the world going around.

 

[Pauly]

If a pricing system is so complicated as to require a tutorial for its use, it’s likely to be less than ideal at the start. Can you imagine something of yours might be simplified?

The original video concept was for those who wanted to create their own excel spreadsheet to price their own jobs in their shop.
When formulas start to get complex with VLOOKUP etc, and especially if you don't know it well, it becomes a challenge to get right and finding errors.

I have a lot of inputs and variables that helps pricing.
For example, I've seen those ones online and i have no idea what it's doing. After watching am explanation video, it makes more sense.

What we've been using is IMO as simplified as i can get it, but allowing us to get pricing accurately but adding data such as
Cost per hour, cost per SQM, cost per print, minimum fees, hour rates, ink pricing, printer speeds, stock pricing. and so on.
Once data is entered, and you've entered the job in it.. It breaks down the total to profit, ink costs, and running costs and est time for print.

The models for pricing signs or practically any custom, made-to-order products are already available in the wild and can be seen at many websites and demos of those software companies offering their solutions. At this point, it’s all about presentation of the data and how best to handle both physical work flow in the shop and the work flow of the business software.

Solutions for manufacturing custom products have been around for a very, very long time but most current developers have not. They mostly are of younger generations and no longer have the help and experience of veterans in the industry, unfortunately. However, reinventing the wheel is part of what keeps the world going around.

This is correct, but unfortunately those old solutions are dated. or are vey specific to a field. And some ask so much that you wonder if it's even worth it, when 90% of the people will have excel and could whip up something to have pricing.

 

[ColorCrest]

One of the goals of good software is to enable CSRs and such who don't necessarily have much expert knowledge of sign construction but yet accurately quote and promise delivery to the customer. The software can help alleviate quoting burdens from shop owners, etc. A pricing concept is usually that of cost-based methods with database records created of pre-constructed sign products. Many current solutions call the products "templates" for some reason I don't understand other than they all seem to copy one another.

So, a CSR might not know exactly how to construct a sign but they should be able to invoke the sign product from a list. They then enter the qty, size, sides, etc. and the software can calculate a price. If the sign construction needs different components, then those are available from the product list and a new products might be given a new name and saved for future use.

 

[ColorCrest]

but unfortunately those old solutions are dated.

Dated how, exactly?

 

[victor bogdanov]

Do you believe that factor might trump their economies of scale?

I think on a lot of products it does, I haven't seen many products where I would not make a decent profit doing work at the prices the wholesellers offer

 

[Pauly]

Dated how, exactly?

For example, im always looking for print pricing, not so much manufacturing signs.
And a lot of the calculators have a standard area pricing and if you want a discount for 10 sheets, you enter a percentage, rather than knowing your cost per sheet for 1 sheet or 10 sheets.

And sadly, a lot of older software are stuck in imperial...
But each to their own. If it works for the user, great!

 

[ColorCrest]

What we've been using is IMO as simplified as i can get it, but allowing us to get pricing accurately but adding data such as
Cost per hour, cost per SQM, cost per print, minimum fees, hour rates, ink pricing, printer speeds, stock pricing. and so on.
Once data is entered, and you've entered the job in it.. It breaks down the total to profit, ink costs, and running costs and est time for print.

Well, if one is using spreadsheets for this task, then we're back to my comment about "presentation." Spreadsheets are not the efficient tool.

If one quoted 8 different line items, what does that look like as far as the spreadsheet layout and saving the file(s)?

 

[Pauly]

When I need a quick way to price something I don't normally offer but want to do in house, I go to a trade printer website, see how much they charge and I know that if they can make a profit and run a business off that price then I can too because I know I have much lower overhead. I then price a bit higher than the trade printers would

I've noticed some trade print vendors have a little calculator that you can mark up their pricing which is quite neat.
if 1000 a6 postcards costs $150, you can add 100% to it + tax. so it would be $330 and you can quote off that.

 

[Pauly]

Well, if one is using spreadsheets for this task, then we're back to my comment about "presentation." Spreadsheets are not the efficient tool.

If one quoted 8 different line items, what does that look like as far as the spreadsheet layout and saving the file(s)?

Not really the type of calculator i've put together.
you want to price up 10x 600x900 signs. 5 900x1200 signs. etc. you would input them individually.

I could create a calculator that can create pricing with line items. but that would require the user to input a lot of data.

Then in your invoicing software like xero QuickBooks, FreshBooks, etc, that's where you'd write up the finial product and price.

 

[ColorCrest]

Not really the type of calculator i've put together.
you want to price up 10x 600x900 signs. 5 900x1200 signs. etc. you would input them individually.

I could create a calculator that can create pricing with line items. but that would require the user to input a lot of data.

Then in your invoicing software like xero QuickBooks, FreshBooks, etc, that's where you'd write up the finial product and price.

I'm trying to understand any benefit of this tool and especially a "saving the file" process.

 

[Pauly]

I'm trying to understand any benefit of this tool and especially a "saving the file" process.

This tool creates your core pricing structure. - That's all.

You can use it in any way you'd like.
We primarily use it to create product & pricing for our online system.
If there's new stock pricing, we use it to update online pricing.
And it only takes minutes.

At times we've been asked to quote products that aren't listed, so all i'd do it enter the stock price, enter the ideal print settings and we've got a pretty accurate pricing for the job - in minutes.
Write up the quote in Xero, send it off. and im off doing other things.

For example.
It takes -
Printer cost per hour (electricity, lamps etc)
Printer cost per sqm (ink, etc)
Printer cost per job (maintenance)
Printer speed
Stock/Media price
Shop rate (hour rate)
minimum per job/product

And it'll tell you:
How much the print costs
How much the stock will cost
How much profit you'll make
Est time to print.

 

[ColorCrest]

This tool creates your core pricing structure. - That's all.

You can use it in any way you'd like

It seem you've created a sort of price breakdown tool normally saved as part of line items in most software solutions.

Again, about the "saving the file" part or you don't find the need to save the info?

 

[Pauly]

It seem you've created a sort of price breakdown tool normally saved as part of line items in most software solutions.

Kind of, sort of - if the software allows you to input all those pieces of data, and if the software can dynamically (where price changed per quantity) price the products. then yeah pretty much. but how much does software like this set the average user back?

tools created in excel like this benefits the smaller shops who don't know how to get started on pricing their jobs.

Again, about the "saving the file" part or you don't find the need to save the info?

Only time you need to save it, is after you enter your shop and machine rates.
Otherwise there's no need to save anything - it's a calculator.

Once i get the prices, they go into our online store, or xero etc.

 

[ColorCrest]

so all i'd do it enter the stock price, enter the ideal print settings

Where does this data come from?

 

[Pauly]

Where does this data come from?

I already explained it.

Step 1:
You enter the data once.
below would be on a separate sheet
Printer cost per hour (electricity, lamps etc)
Printer cost per sqm (ink, etc)
Printer cost per job (maintenance)
Printer speed
Save the spreadsheet

Step 2:
On the main sheet:
you add the stock price you're quoting.
add your shop rate, usually you don't change it unless your product has huge margins
enter your product size and quantity.

Step 3:
Get your price. write it up in what ever quoting software you use.

To quote another product or quantity. Repeat from step 2.