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Print. Laminate, Cut - just a bit off....

Discussion in 'Roland' started by Engstrom Graphics, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Engstrom Graphics

    Engstrom Graphics sniperhockeydesigns

    Hey guys - need some help if you would be willing. I have a Roland SP-300 - anyways, I am making some decals that have contours that need to be laminated (they are going on a semi).

    I have the steps down (I think!) - print only, with crop marks, remove vinyl, laminate, then put back in, go to settings and change to Cut Only. The head seemed to locate and identify the 4 circles, and the 1 rectangle box.

    So I am thinking so far so good.......it cuts, I remove and start to weed.

    From left to right - it gets better and better, and towards the far right the cut is exactly where it should be (I cut same decal with no laminate and it was perfect - I did not re-rip or anything, kept the same file open).

    The left side - it cuts too much into the graphic then leaves white space about 1/4" to the right of where it should have cut - so seems like it runs a bit.

    Anyone have any suggestions? Again - I printed and cut the same graphic, without laminating, and it cut perfect around each letter. Now I re-printed, but DID NOT re-rip, kept everything the same, and now the cut is not exactly correct.

    Thanks in advance guys - I appreciate it! I don't want to send door decals out to a customer who is using it on a semi without laminate - and cutting around with a scissors is pretty much out of the questions, ha!
     
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  2. Engstrom Graphics

    Engstrom Graphics sniperhockeydesigns

    Through some other research I have done on this site - a lot of people mention to NOT Get Media Width - however, my printer automatically moves the head over once it is done processing and obtains the media width - I do not press any button on the machine.......

    Could this be causing the cut to be off slightly?

    Thanks again.
     
  3. idsignsil

    idsignsil Member

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    Do a search, there have been a ton of discussions about this.

    Quick fix, print with bleed on your graphics. Leave the cut lines set in, and if it gets off a little, no worries. This is what we do on our Roland XC-540.
     
  4. Engstrom Graphics

    Engstrom Graphics sniperhockeydesigns

    idsignsil - thanks, I must have posted just before you did. Not looking for free information and doing no work on my part, I have researched a lot but still have the problem....

    Thanks in advance!
     
  5. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    When you say 'left to right' do you mean the direction of carriage travel or the direction of media feed? Is the error the same in both directions or is it only in one direction?

    Since the error is cumulative the sensor to cutter distance setting is correct [I assume that there is such a setting on your tackle]. Further, since the registration marks were detected properly, the software now knows the actual physical dimensions and shape of the image's bounding rectangle.

    If the error is only in the direction of media feed, the most likely error, then your gear is not feeding the laminated media at the same rate it feeds unlaminated media.

    If the error is only in direction of carriage travel then you have hardware and perhaps software problems with repeatability. That would be the ability to plot the same image twice on the same piece of media and have only one cut path in the finished product.

    If the error is in both directions then most likely you have some combination of both of the above problems.
     
  6. All-SignZ

    All-SignZ Active Member

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    your problem is most likely when you load the sheet back in, i needs to be in there square. we usally use the the slot where the sheet cutting blade runs through to line up the leading edge of the vinyl. when scanning for the crop marks after the first one while going towards the 2nd the vinyl should not be moving forward if it does move forward then the vinyl is not in there square and your cut can be off...
     
  7. All-SignZ

    All-SignZ Active Member

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    also whenever your cutting on the edge of a color you should bleed that color b/c well it's not always gonna be a perfect cut.
     
  8. cha88

    cha88 Member

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    agreed with the bleed and the two post above me... your sheet must be as square as possible and always keep your cutting the the shortest length possible to keep it accurate... i.e. ill cut 50 decals 4 times rather then 200 at once...
     
  9. Engstrom Graphics

    Engstrom Graphics sniperhockeydesigns

    Thanks Bob and others for taking the time to reply - I don't think it is a roller issue where it feeds at different rates.......it is just left to right.

    I attached 2 pictures - one of the whole graphic (it is hard to see the white since the backing is white also - but I included some arrows) and a closeup - as mentioned, it is worse on the JS compared to rms of Farms it is perfect (no white on the right side).


    I also did a sheet cut on the piece on the top and bottom - so they are straight. I lined it up even with one of the grooves at the base of the printer so make sure it was square......the head recognized the marks right away - so I think it was in there square?

    Is there an option in VW to bleed print?

    Thanks guys!
     

    Attached Files:

  10. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    earth
    Not so.

    If the plotter manages to read four registration marks successfully then the exact shape of the image's bounding rectangle is known and all vectors within that space are remapped to account for this shape.

    The reason the media needs to be reasonably square to the plotter is so the plotter can move to where it thinks a registration mark should be and actually find one there. That and wildly skewed media may also have feed irregularities due to different inertial forces.

    If you experience anything different, you most likely have other problems than the media being less than square to the plotter.
     
  11. idsignsil

    idsignsil Member

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    No there is not an option in VW. You would need to do this in you layout program.
     
  12. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    I bet its the brush script causing it :thumb:
     
  13. ova

    ova Member

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    Couple of thing I do everyday.

    1. Do an enviromental match after the printer has gone through all it's checks.

    2, Wipe the encoder strip with iso alcohol. Helps if any dust or other unwanted particles land on it over night. If you print alot, ink mist will build up on it and cause it to be sticky. Only go in one direction, not back and forth.

    I always print only first. Never cut or weed before I lam. How do you keep the registration marks on you media? If there is no vinyl between the lam and backer, the lam might be sliding ever so slightly, but this is only a guess.

    Also, do the bleed thing. But in your case it seems like the cut is off too much to compensate and make the images look distorted.

    Dave
     
  14. Engstrom Graphics

    Engstrom Graphics sniperhockeydesigns

    I hate Brush Script - but the client gave me a set of his old ones and wanted the same thing.

    Also, I didn't weed or anything after I printed. I laminated after is gassed out, over the entire thing.

    Kinda at a loss - I will try to bleed and go again.

    Thanks guys.
     
  15. ova

    ova Member

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    My bad. Read it again and thought where it said remove vinyl meant you weeded the images.

    Maybe do a test where you print something using registration marks. Remove it from the printer, put it back in lining up your R marks and then cut the image. Do this using the full width of the media. I always use small rectangles to test the print/cut calibration.

    Dave
     
  16. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    I have posted on this before. Do Not Trust the sheet cut. People assume that is guarantees a perfectly straight cut. It will cut dead straight, but in reference to what? If you do not take the time to load the material perfectly square you will have issues. And perfectly square does not mean using the lines between the platens.
    Example: Wife was running hundreds of decals. After the first couple batches it ruined a batch since the contour cut was off. I asked what she was doing. She said: " I always use the sheet cut to make sure it's square". My response was to remove and use my big t-square to see if it was a 90 degree cut. It was out of square by 9/16" !! Without a good take up reel things will move plain and simple. You have to lift up the pinch wheels and reset things once in a while. You load material by feel not arbitrary reference points.

    If a job leaves me little in terms of bleed I will use my straightedge and manually mark the material according to the crops. Then I manually load and set the base point. Slam dunk every time.
     
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