Printed 3M dual color film, liquid laminated, I need input...

[Andy D]

We are doing a huge set of edited: back-lit channel letters, each letter is in the area of 9 foot x 9 foot.
The faces will be clear lexan cut in one piece, meaning every letter's face will be a routed 9'x9' piece of lexan.
They will be decorated with printed on white 3M dual color perforated film, basicly the same as window perf but the
adhesive side is white too.

We do plenty of these type dual color channel letters, but normally we would cold lam the perf vinyl
and dry mount via our laminator... but the letters being so big, we can't run them through the laminator,
and it being multi panels and a "floppy" routed letter, we may need to apply the panels with app fluid, which means
air and fluid trapped in the perforation hole.

So my thought is to apply with no laminate and let our paint department spray liquid laminate afterwards,
has anyone here liquid laminated perforated vinyl before? One worry is if they go heavy, the holes will cause drips..
Any input would be helpful.....

 

[eahicks]

Why this material if it is a front lit sign? Isn't it intended for backlit?

 

[jfiscus]

It will work without runs if they spray it in a few light coats. You wouldn't want to do liquid laminate on vehicle window perf, but in this instance it would work fine.

 

[Andy D]

Why this material if it is a front lit sign? Isn't it intended for backlit?

Sorry, I didn't describe it correctly, they are backlit, what I was trying to say is they are not reverse lit, meaning
halo lit

 

[Andy D]

It will work without runs if they spray it in a few light coats. You wouldn't want to do liquid laminate on vehicle window perf, but in this instance it would work fine.

I guess my other concern is how the liquid laminate would do in the perf holes
and contacting the lexan, you think it will adhere well and not flake off?

 

[jfiscus]

I guess my other concern is how the liquid laminate would do in the perf holes
and contacting the lexan, you think it will adhere well and not flake off?

if you have a paint department, why not just spray it with clear coat instead of liquid laminate?

 

[Andy D]

That's actually what we used to do, and then we starting having
ink/vinyl failures 2-3 years out.

Have you clear coated a lot of your outdoors printed vinyl, without any issues?
If so, can you tell me what brand and series works for you?

 

[TimToad]

What is the durability rating for the material you are going to use?

I'd ask your 3M rep about compatibility with whatever clearcoat you intend to use to make sure its not going age differently than the perf and cause any premature curling of the perf.

Most perfs are only rated for a few years to begin with for the reasons we talked about in that other thread, putting some liquid over them that could expand and contract at a different rate might eventually affect adhesion.

Just to give you an idea of the expansion and contraction of larger flat areas of polycarbonate, I've seen a 4'x8' sheet in an illuminated cabinet grow over 1/2" in each direction on a hot day. That's why everyone cuts the panels at least a 1/2" smaller than the cabinet size.

It would really stink to have such a huge project go south after a short period of time because the facing material failed prematuraely.

 

[Andy D]

What is the durability rating for the material you are going to use?

I'd ask your 3M rep about compatibility with whatever clearcoat you intend to use to make sure its not going age differently than the perf and cause any premature curling of the perf.

Most perfs are only rated for a few years to begin with for the reasons we talked about in that other thread, putting some liquid over them that could expand and contract at a different rate might eventually affect adhesion.

Just to give you an idea of the expansion and contraction of larger flat areas of polycarbonate, I've seen a 4'x8' sheet in an illuminated cabinet grow over 1/2" in each direction on a hot day. That's why everyone cuts the panels at least a 1/2" smaller than the cabinet size.

It would really stink to have such a huge project go south after a short period of time because the facing material failed prematuraely.

As usual, great advice, thanks Tim.

 

[fresh]

am i missing something? aren't you going to have to tile the graphics anyway, why not just laminate as usual.

 

[Andy D]

am i missing something? aren't you going to have to tile the graphics anyway, why not just laminate as usual.

Because we are going to have to do the application by hand, probably with app fluid, and perf vinyl with lamination traps air & moisture in the holes..

 

[Andy D]

FYI for anyone in the future that may have a simular issue:
3M basically said that they have never tested liquid laminate on their dual color
perforated vinyl, so they had no recommendations, which I understand.

I think the way we're going forward is to do each letter in multi pieces, so that we can use the cold roller laminate
they recommend and use the laminator for a dry mount, with a backer strip gluing the plastic pieces together.
We have done these this way before, not my favorite option, but better safe than sorry.