Need Help Printer Cutter for non-graphics business?

[Antigravity]

HI All,

I own a Lithium-Ion Battery business, we sell Lithium-Ion Batteries to the Powersports and Motorsports Channels. We outsource about 6000 stickers every 6 months for Promotional purposes....and about another 4000 for the lables on our Battery products we make. Additionally we usually buy Tradeshow Shirts that are dye sublimated maybe 10 every year or two ($100 dollars each) and last year had about 500 T-Shirts made (screen printed) for a few thousand dollars and some other stuff....So that about $5k to $7K a year in decal/promotional materials...

So to bring up my point I was thinking of getting something like a Roland BN20 or the next step up 30" printer/cutter so we could just do this all ourselves and in house and do it in smaller runs, and have the complete control over it and change a decal design right away if we wanted to. Or make 10 different decal designs if we want.... When I look at spending a good few thousand on stickers/decals/apparel each year it seems we could do this all in house with one of these printer/cutter machines and actually even make Shirts or other value added items for promotional use also, or even brand our shop truck (that haven't already been wrapped).

So I am looking for any input on if this idea is reasonable.... I know we will not be saving a tremendous amount of money right away due to the cost of these machines and the purchase of new material for the decals and heat transfers, and a heat press and labor. My concern is more about having the control over everything and being able to whip our short runs of decals for sponsored riders and do all our basics also. But overall it appears that for that roughly $10K to $15k investment we can do alot of stuff in house and with more control.

So are there things I'm missing? Do other businesses do this? We don't need speed since we are not a graphics business we can print a few thousand decals over a day if that's what it takes... Should we actually invest in these professional printer/cutters as a regular business not intending on being a full time graphics company?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Bly]

I'd keep outsourcing if I were you.

 

[CanuckSigns]

You need to factor in consumables such as ink, vinyl, laminate etc. Also you will be paying an employee an hourly wage to run the machine. These printers are not just plug and play as it looks from the outside, there is quite a lot to learn.

 

[Antigravity]

You need to factor in consumables such as ink, vinyl, laminate etc. Also you will be paying an employee an hourly wage to run the machine. These printers are not just plug and play as it looks from the outside, there is quite a lot to learn.

Thanks for the input....

I have a few additional questions.... do all the decals need to be laminated? Meaning does a decal that someone can place on their motorcycle or vehicle need to be laminated, or is the decal material somewhat weather resistant? For example when we order stickers they ask us if we want a laminate and we do not do that, so I thought it was just straight printing on the stock. Is that the laminate you are talking about? I'm not looking for something completely weather resistant but just somewhat durable. I was thinking vinyl was somewhat water proof as it is and when you printed it was ready. But maybe I was missing something. Also I know these don't cut the stucker completely out like we get them from a official sticker place... so that would be additional labor since we would have to cut out the stickers into individual pieces from the sheet they are printed on.

 

[Gene@mpls]

You will get a free education as well.

 

[studio 440]

so im in the sign trade and was thinking about making my own lithium-ion batteries as i buy them right now ...............how can i do this cheaper

 

[NazGraphics]

ahahahah

 

[Active Sign]

It’s a hard decision. Personally i would not recommend it. Those print/cut machines need to be run frequently or you will have problems. The ink dries up and clogs ink lines, heads, pumps, tubing. Also factor in Maintenance, designer training/r&d time, trashed material waste and learning curve. I have two big print/cut machines and we are still learning new things after years of use.

Might be better to consider investing in more marketing and sales training to increase income.

We can all fix our own cars but it’s better to take it to a mechanic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Terry01]

Buying a printer/cutter for doing one off in house runs is simple. Learning to do a
cost effective production run is a whole new ball game..Be prepared to waste a
hell of a lot of money and time on mistakes. The printer can't just sit around for weeks
without ongoing maintenance. If you already do your own in house designing, you are
1/4 of the way there.

 

[Antigravity]

so im in the sign trade and was thinking about making my own lithium-ion batteries as i buy them right now ...............how can i do this cheaper

Ah,I see.... you take offense that I might be trying to infringe on the sacred Sign Tradesmen like you? Oh silly me, taking food from the mouths of babes. Is the guy who wants to make stickers out of his garage going to infringe on you also.

 

[Antigravity]

It’s a hard decision. Personally i would not recommend it. Those print/cut machines need to be run frequently or you will have problems. The ink dries up and clogs ink lines, heads, pumps, tubing. Also factor in Maintenance, designer training/r&d time, trashed material waste and learning curve. I have two big print/cut machines and we are still learning new things after years of use.

Might be better to consider investing in more marketing and sales training to increase income.

We can all fix our own cars but it’s better to take it to a mechanic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for bringing the maintenance up and drying ink...I had seen some videos on Youtube and read other forums today about that...so we just have to make sure we are active on printing frequently enough... but I also heard the machines will clean their heads in a timely interval if not used.

I saw there is a trade show close to us next weekend in Long Beach where I can see these machines in action and get a better understanding overall.

 

[bob]

Ah,I see.... you take offense that I might be trying to infringe on the sacred Sign Tradesmen like you? Oh silly me, taking food from the mouths of babes. Is the guy who wants to make stickers out of his garage going to infringe on you also.

Don't flatter yourself.

The salient fact here is that you are incapable of running a large format printer and a plotter be they a print/cut machine or two separate devices. These are not desktop printers on steroids, rather they are unlike anything you've ever encountered. Using one is far more art than science.

They require daily care and feeding. Everyday. Day after day. Daily. Not once a week. Every day. The more infrequently you see to their needs the more expensive and frustrating problems you will experience. Even at that they can be exceedingly temperamental and troublesome. Take a look at the posts in these waters and what percent of them are people dealing with printer issues. Why do you suppose that is?

Assuming that you're reasonably adept at using commercial graphics software, it will take you at least a year, plus or minus, to develop the necessary skills to reliably wrangle the printer. Along the way, you're going burn up at least a couple of rolls of media and one or two ink sets, all of which will produce little usable output. That's if you're dealing with it every day, not just being a dilettante and attempting to use it every now and then. If the former you might sdtan a chance of being a passable digital pressman, not guarantees though. If the latter, you'll never produce anything but frustration. Better to take a length of rope into woods now.

Preserve both your sanity, and your bank account, and send out for your needs. If you envision changing your designs, do so, and send them out for production. Large format printers and all the attendant paraphernalia, both hard and soft, represent a skilled trade. Respect that and stick to what you know, batteries apparently.

 

[Antigravity]

Don't flatter yourself.

The salient fact here is that you are incapable of running a large format printer and a plotter be they a print/cut machine or two separate devices. These are not desktop printers on steroids, rather they are unlike anything you've ever encountered. Using one is far more art than science.

They require daily care and feeding. Everyday. Day after day. Daily. Not once a week. Every day. The more infrequently you see to their needs the more expensive and frustrating problems you will experience. Even at that they can be exceedingly temperamental and troublesome. Take a look at the posts in these waters and what percent of them are people dealing with printer issues. Why do you suppose that is?

Assuming that you're reasonably adept at using commercial graphics software, it will take you at least a year, plus or minus, to develop the necessary skills to reliably wrangle the printer. Along the way, you're going burn up at least a couple of rolls of media and one or two ink sets, all of which will produce little usable output. That's if you're dealing with it every day, not just being a dilettante and attempting to use it every now and then. If the former you might sdtan a chance of being a passable digital pressman, not guarantees though. If the latter, you'll never produce anything but frustration. Better to take a length of rope into woods now.

Preserve both your sanity, and your bank account, and send out for your needs. If you envision changing your designs, do so, and send them out for production. Large format printers and all the attendant paraphernalia, both hard and soft, represent a skilled trade. Respect that and stick to what you know, batteries apparently.

Well, I got you to reply in a somewhat angry, but more on-point answer to my original query this time... so that is good. And you also made some good points that I will add to the 20 hours of research I have put into my skull so far on this... so those are positives I can take away.

On the other hand I think you are over-reaching my original intentions and also being obnoxious by stating I am "incapable of running a large format printer". I am utterly unfazed at the prospect of running a BN20 or a VS300, it's ridiculous to think this requires some incredible skill set. I fully understand there will be a learning curve, some wasted materials, maintenance issues we must look after... that is normal with anything new. But I'm a logical person and know with today's quality equipment this can't be anymore difficult that learning CAD, operating a CNC machine or designing all aspects of our products. We will come out the other side within a few months with the ability to easily do what I envision, and have the control we need to for our production, and open a new avenue for us. So I've sort of answered my own questions today with the help of some comments and doing the research I have over the last 4 days. I will go the Tradeshow in Long Beach get some demos of these products, then make arrangement to get another demo using some of our files at Local Epson Dealer and if it seems viable I will buy the thing and not look back....

 

[Jburns]

I would skip the BN-20- watch a few videos on the speed

 

[Vohaul]

Well, I got you to reply in a somewhat angry, but more on-point answer to my original query this time... so that is good. And you also made some good points that I will add to the 20 hours of research I have put into my skull so far on this... so those are positives I can take away.

On the other hand I think you are over-reaching my original intentions and also being obnoxious by stating I am "incapable of running a large format printer". I am utterly unfazed at the prospect of running a BN20 or a VS300, it's ridiculous to think this requires some incredible skill set. I fully understand there will be a learning curve, some wasted materials, maintenance issues we must look after... that is normal with anything new. But I'm a logical person and know with today's quality equipment this can't be anymore difficult that learning CAD, operating a CNC machine or designing all aspects of our products. We will come out the other side within a few months with the ability to easily do what I envision, and have the control we need to for our production, and open a new avenue for us. So I've sort of answered my own questions today with the help of some comments and doing the research I have over the last 4 days. I will go the Tradeshow in Long Beach get some demos of these products, then make arrangement to get another demo using some of our files at Local Epson Dealer and if it seems viable I will buy the thing and not look back....

Lol... antigravity, I wouldn’t worry to much.... unlike what bob seems to think, anyone can learn to “wrangle” one of these....I am the proud owner of a Roland Xr-640..... I don’t print on it every day.... (I’m a designer first and foremost)..... aside from a weekly manual overall wipe down and head clean, I don’t have to do much.... it auto cleans every 8 hours or so...... it’s never let be down, and I haven’t wasted rolls of material either....

Yes, I’ve been in the print / sign industry for years and have a lot of experience running these.... but I taught an employee to run it in an afternoon.......

I think what you are thinking is completely plausible..... the less you need to sub out, the more control and eventual money savings you’ll have

Cheers

Paul


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[d fleming]

Buy the machine. You have already made up your mind so get off the fence and in the trenches.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

If I were in your shoes, I would recommended to get a summa dc series printer. These would prevent the need for lam or maintenance.

The durability of thermal resin is way better and you can do t-shirt transfers that are wash durable.

 

[bob]

...On the other hand I think you are over-reaching my original intentions and also being obnoxious by stating I am "incapable of running a large format printer". I am utterly unfazed at the prospect of running a BN20 or a VS300, it's ridiculous to think this requires some incredible skill set....

If by 'obnoxious' you mean merely stating facts, then obnoxious it is. It's these facts that you find obnoxious, so don't shoot the messenger.

I never said 'incredible skill set', it's not incredible but whatever level it might be, you don't have it. How hard can it be you no doubt think, others do it. Others do lots of things that you are incapable of rising from your seat and doing. You certainly can learn, but it's not the matter of a few days, it pretty much takes the time and materials I originally stated.

If you don't particularly care what comes out of your printer, then just learn what buttons to push and when to push them and have fun. Do that and you'll never know what you could have produced. Until your machinery clogs up and ceases operation because you failed to take the time to develop a proper understanding of what you're herding.

Again, check the number of posts in this sand box put there by folks with printer problems. Most of which are avoidable if you know what you're about.

 

[C5 Service&Repair]

Skip the BN-20, and skip the people that say 'you cant do it'. Make sure you evaluate all the related expenses, and if it makes sense to bring it in-house, then do it.
The art is likely going to be the biggest obstacle, but if you partner with an ad agency or even a college student that wants to make extra money, then running the machine is not that difficult. I train people every day that when I walk in I think 'oh shit...' but by the end of training they are running it just fine and I rarely have peple blowing up my phone asking a ton of questions.
The VS-300i would be a great machine for you.

 

[ikarasu]

Just to echo what others are saying... Yes, you don't need to be a brain surgeon to understand how to print. But there is a lot of stuff you need to learn. It's not like a desktop printer where all the colors are good / close... unless you do your own profiling, out of the box all your reds will be orange,greys will be blue... etc. Your not only going to be learning how to operate a printer, but also a cutter.

You'll need to learn how to operate a printer.You'll need to learn how to operate a cutter. You'll need to learn what materials to use, and not use. You'll need to learn when/when not to laminate. You'll have to learn how to design/setup your files, setup cut lines, etc. Basic maintenance on all these machines - You'll learn that anytime something breaks, and it will break... You'll be paying $300 + an hour just to diagnose it, along with parts that are going to cost almost as much as a brand new printer just to repair it.

You can do it, but the amount of time you're going to be putting into it is going to cost you more than you think. Theres a reason most print companies hire someone just to man the printers/cutters, it's not a simple task, and it is time consuming. No one here is saying you cant / won't be able to do it.... Just it may not be worth it like you think. On paper, it may look good... you'll get your money back in 2 years, but the time invested in properly learning... might make that 2 years go up to 4 years.

You're also trying to replace labels, dye sub, T-shirt printing, everything with 1 printer. Doing 500 shirts on that printer would be a pain in the ass.

Watch this 8 minute video on the guy doing 2 shirts. You have to print, cut, heat press... If you silk screened,you're looking at 5-10 seconds per shirt. If you're printing and cutting and heat pressing, you're looking at 5-10 minutes per shirt... Now your savings don't look so good, huh? 500 shirts at 5 minutes each, = 42 hours. + the cost of materials... Few bucks per blank shirt, $1 per shirt for ink, $2-3 per shirt for the vinyl...

Point everyone is trying to tell you... There is A LOT more involved than pressing a few buttons. If you want to bring your production in house, I'm all for it. Just make sure you know what you're getting into, and your actual costs / savings will be. And your quality is going to be different also, you wont get the same quality as screen print / dye subs on a shirt, with that printer.

My suggestion... Buy a latex printer/cutter combo for $11000. Do your own labels... Thats the easiest thing to learn. Don't bother with the shirts, as you wont get what your looking for out of a vinyl transfer, and that machine.