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printers- what do you use and what would you recommend buying?
- Thread starter lexsigns
- Start date
CS-SignSupply-TT
New Member
Raychel, before you decide on the technology, what business are you MISSING or is "going down the road" because you do not offer the product or service?
rjssigns
Active Member
Hi Raychel,
Before you buy or lease sub out your print work and track invoices. Do this for at least 6 months to see if you can justify the equipment you want. It will also allow time for other mfg's to roll out new product.
We use Roland at our shop, but I would be hesitant to buy or lease right now. The pending "latex war" with Mimaki, HP and I'm sure Roland will definitely shake up the market and corresponding prices.
Look at the "fire sale" HP had on the remaining stock of L25500's. You want to get caught in that?
Before you buy or lease sub out your print work and track invoices. Do this for at least 6 months to see if you can justify the equipment you want. It will also allow time for other mfg's to roll out new product.
We use Roland at our shop, but I would be hesitant to buy or lease right now. The pending "latex war" with Mimaki, HP and I'm sure Roland will definitely shake up the market and corresponding prices.
Look at the "fire sale" HP had on the remaining stock of L25500's. You want to get caught in that?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
This could be possibly a very big move [and expensive one] for certain shops, so think this through thoroughly.
How much call do you have for it now ?? In other words, how much are you subbing out per week ??
If you're doing 1/2 of your work in digital prints and it equals maybe 20 or more hours of your time, can you afford to be baby-sitting a printer while the other work needs to be done ??
Also, what's the size requirements you have/need ??
Don't get a small one, if you get occasional 4' banners or some wrap jobs. No one wants to splice a hood wrap.
Last, you do realize, you'll need space for this printer, a cutter which will accept your registration marks and then finally a laminator.
When entering the digital arena, one should have all the equipment needed to do it right and not ease into it or you'll create a lousy reputation very quickly and then everything would be for naught.
How much call do you have for it now ?? In other words, how much are you subbing out per week ??
If you're doing 1/2 of your work in digital prints and it equals maybe 20 or more hours of your time, can you afford to be baby-sitting a printer while the other work needs to be done ??
Also, what's the size requirements you have/need ??
Don't get a small one, if you get occasional 4' banners or some wrap jobs. No one wants to splice a hood wrap.
Last, you do realize, you'll need space for this printer, a cutter which will accept your registration marks and then finally a laminator.
When entering the digital arena, one should have all the equipment needed to do it right and not ease into it or you'll create a lousy reputation very quickly and then everything would be for naught.
lexsigns
New Member
Thanks for all the good advise! very valid things to think about.
I do alot of vehicles and these days I am subbing out all the prints which are almost weekly. Not full wraps but contour cut prints. Alot of site signs, banners, windows and carved signs(sub out to router) I have great subs who take care of all of my needs but the printing is getting out of hand. I have been subbing out the prints for years and I think it is about 8 prints vs 2 cut vinyl per job so I am definately using.
I would get at least a 54" so that I would never have to splice a hood, was thinking a 36" but that would be stupid and confining for larger vehicle jobs. I do have the room- not organized yet but have it.
It is just me now I dont want to babysit a printer- Do you really have to? I figured it could print while I doing installs or design work etc..
I would not say I am loosing any work by not having one just profits. I think in a year it would pay for itself.
I was looking at the roland SP540i new or there is a used Roland pro3 545ex getting traded. That is the one I would go for.
I don't know anything about latex solvent etc... I need for mostly outdoor work, dont want to ventilate(can't) and need to cut.
I am on the fence since it's winter and slow but if I wait till I am busier wont have time to set up and learn..
How exactly would you print a bunch of stuff that needed to be cut after? I have a plotter but if you have to take off the roll to lam I assume you have to reload to cut? How hard is that?
Thanks again for the advise input and help
I really appreciate talking to fellow sign people who use daily than the suppliers who want to make the sale!
I do alot of vehicles and these days I am subbing out all the prints which are almost weekly. Not full wraps but contour cut prints. Alot of site signs, banners, windows and carved signs(sub out to router) I have great subs who take care of all of my needs but the printing is getting out of hand. I have been subbing out the prints for years and I think it is about 8 prints vs 2 cut vinyl per job so I am definately using.
I would get at least a 54" so that I would never have to splice a hood, was thinking a 36" but that would be stupid and confining for larger vehicle jobs. I do have the room- not organized yet but have it.
It is just me now I dont want to babysit a printer- Do you really have to? I figured it could print while I doing installs or design work etc..
I would not say I am loosing any work by not having one just profits. I think in a year it would pay for itself.
I was looking at the roland SP540i new or there is a used Roland pro3 545ex getting traded. That is the one I would go for.
I don't know anything about latex solvent etc... I need for mostly outdoor work, dont want to ventilate(can't) and need to cut.
I am on the fence since it's winter and slow but if I wait till I am busier wont have time to set up and learn..
How exactly would you print a bunch of stuff that needed to be cut after? I have a plotter but if you have to take off the roll to lam I assume you have to reload to cut? How hard is that?
Thanks again for the advise input and help
I really appreciate talking to fellow sign people who use daily than the suppliers who want to make the sale!Hog Wild graphics
New Member
Roland SP_300v: Works great love print and cut but wish it was a 54.
HP l25500: Use this for as much printing as possible. Great Machine.
HP l25500: Use this for as much printing as possible. Great Machine.
De.signs Nanaimo
New Member
I say keep subbing for now, that's what I'm doing.
I ran several different printers and laminators in a few shops.
By the time you are printing, laminating, loading, maintaining, setting up, plotting, etc. You pretty much need someone on it most of the time. If your not going to print at least 3-5 hours a day, don't bother.
Keep in mind most large format printers are designed to run hard and fast and put away clean. They are also designed for a life span of about 3 years, if you're taking a year to pay it off that's a lot of profit percentage for one printer!
If you can run it half a day, 5 days a week, then go for it!
I ran several different printers and laminators in a few shops.
By the time you are printing, laminating, loading, maintaining, setting up, plotting, etc. You pretty much need someone on it most of the time. If your not going to print at least 3-5 hours a day, don't bother.
Keep in mind most large format printers are designed to run hard and fast and put away clean. They are also designed for a life span of about 3 years, if you're taking a year to pay it off that's a lot of profit percentage for one printer!
If you can run it half a day, 5 days a week, then go for it!
SightLine
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If you want to minimize babysitting maintenance than I'd personally reccomend a Mimaki JV33 (not an older JV3) or an HP Latex. Like others mentioned though - a LOT is coming onto the market right now. The Mimaki is going to have some strong solvent odor but they are superb machines and will run for years. Many still run the older JV3 machines - those have been out since about 2003 and still are running daily. The older JV3 machines do take a bit more maintenance and fiddling to keep them running perfect though. The HP Latex machines - do a search here. Near maintenance free but they are not without their quirks and issues though - no printer is. It does sound like you are truly nearing the point of needing to take print in house though. Other things - you are going to need a good RIP, laminator of the same width as the printer, cutter that can read marks for print/cut work.
If you do a lot of of cut vinyl and print/cut and flat out print I also personally reccomend FlexiSign Pro. With good profiles it prints great, and has about the best and easiest print/cut functionality in one package with the ability to drive multiple machines and add contour cuts to print designs even using one brand printer and another brand cutter with no problem at all.
If you do a lot of of cut vinyl and print/cut and flat out print I also personally reccomend FlexiSign Pro. With good profiles it prints great, and has about the best and easiest print/cut functionality in one package with the ability to drive multiple machines and add contour cuts to print designs even using one brand printer and another brand cutter with no problem at all.
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
I would follow the advice of others, and find out what your business needs are and find a printer to suit. I can only go by my own example where we would only need a 24" solvent or latex printer to cover the smaller jobs that are in a 'rush' and need it right away without a 2 day turn around from my wholesaler. Can we live without it, yes, but it would be nice to have that extra 20% bump in business for on demand colors we don't cover in cut vinyl let alone a small print/cut could allow for multiple color jobs which if designed properly could be the fun jobs you like to install for the sweat involved.
lexsigns
New Member
I wonder if with all the new ones coming out (latex) the prices will drop dramatically on solvent?
I could try to wait it outbut then again, this is the time of year I am slower and have the time to set up.
What is the biggest advantage to latex vs solvent based? Just the odor?
I could try to wait it outbut then again, this is the time of year I am slower and have the time to set up.
What is the biggest advantage to latex vs solvent based? Just the odor?
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
odor, that and the ink doesn't dry out in the heads like in solvent printers.
eforer
New Member
I'd keep subbing, printers tend to take way more work, time and headache's than anyone is prepared for. We are a small large format shop relatively speaking and we still have almost a million dollars invested in printers when you tally up what we've spent over the last few years. The really big shops (much bigger than mine) have the ability to print so rapidly and cost effectively it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for a successful concern without a printer to buy in on their own. If I could do it all over again, I might not invest in the hardware and I would run my business smaller and leaner. That said, if your hell bent on buying a printer I still have a Mimaki JV3 we use every single day and have since 2005. I has cost me basically nothing to run beyond consumables. That printer is the reason I'm in business.
wildside
New Member
get a quality machine and the babysitting is minimal, we have a mimaki JV3 and don't hesitate to set it up and let it run over night, confidence in equipment goes farther than saving pennies up front on a cheaper quality machine
get a seperate cutter and printer, you have to remove to lam anyway, might as well not tie up your printer to cut something when it could be printing the next job
go with your gut on if its time to buy or not, you can sub our forever, but there comes a time when it just makes sense to have it all in house, no matter if it runs 12 hours a day or a couple hours a week
if i went by the sub-out standards i see most saying here i wouldn't have a printer here by any means, but it is paid for, been running for 5 years with no major problems outside of user error, and it will go days without being used, yet always ready for anything at anytime, including piece of mind
Correct Color
New Member
Latex machines have their place, but honestly, that place is not as a first and only printer, especially for someone in your situation. The latex machines are difficult to load; they take an inordinately long amount of time to warm up to run one job; there are some media that have some real issues with the latex ink...and because of the very nature of how they print, they tend to have a very, very, narrow profiling range.
And the hidden consequence of that is that while the machines themselves can print a pretty reasonable gamut if profiled correctly, a lot of the stock profiles out there for those machines are particularly bad.
As far as the price of solvent dropping much more, I wouldn't count on it. Not only are there more than enough solvent manufacturers, and their dealers, out there to make for a very competitive and price-driven market just between themselves, but Grimco's been giving away--relatively speaking--Epson GS6000's for quite awhile now. I wouldn't look for any prices to drop much more than that. And if it were me in your shoes, and I made the decision to buy a printer, that's probably the machine I'd get.
That, or maybe the Mutoh ValueJet that's the same frame. The Mutoh has the disadvantage/advantage of only having a four color inkset, but other than that, it's the same machine as the Epson. What happens though is the Epson has a little of the same problem as the latex machines, in that a lot of stock profiles for it are pretty weak, since a lot of stock profilers don't really take the time to set up the n-colors correctly.
So the Mutoh just might be a little better machine to cut your teeth on. Although you may find out in looking around that you can get an Epson for less than the Mutoh.
Best of luck.
laserman70
New Member
We purchased the 1624 about six months ago.
Had a Falcon Outdoor prior. We were happy with the old mutoh so decided to stay with them.
This machine is fast and quality is amazing.
If you can justify the cost of buying, no question buy a printer.
We subbed out all large jobs and the savings is amazing on your bottom line.
3 months of jobs, printer paid for itself.
just my .02
Had a Falcon Outdoor prior. We were happy with the old mutoh so decided to stay with them.
This machine is fast and quality is amazing.
If you can justify the cost of buying, no question buy a printer.
We subbed out all large jobs and the savings is amazing on your bottom line.
3 months of jobs, printer paid for itself.
just my .02