Printing Backlit panels

[Conor Knoxx]

I am looking for opinions / experience on the best way to print backlit panels.
I don't do many of them, and just finished one (red / yellow text) that practically disappears when the lights come on
Needless to say, customer is not impressed...
The first "choices" I have to make are material, so rather than trial and error - I'll just ask! :Big Laugh
So I've clear or translucent (white) polycarbonate panels / and clear or translucent (white) vinyl media. Followed by a choice of Matte or Gloss lam (assuming the print is on the outer surface)
Other than that, I can put down more ink.... but I don't find that looks right when the lights are off
Suggestions? (other than not taking these projects in the first place?! )
Thanks in advance!
Conor
(perhaps worth asking as well - would this type of problem be better / worse / the same if we switch the box over to LED lighting?)

 

[Graphic Destruction]

If it's simple 2 color with text, I'm cutting translucent vinyl every time. Printing isn't always the best way to produce.

 

[Sign Eagle]

We've had good results with Advantage Sign OPTIMA 8.5 mil polyester film, it's a front print backlit material we print with our L25500 latex machine

 

[Conor Knoxx]

I've read here about printing both a front and back layer as well.... that just seemed both difficult (to line up) and seemed like more cost/effort than it should be. I'm starting to think that my choice of using clear panels and translucent (oracal) vinyl was a mistake - should have used white polycarbonate.
Now I'm wondering if put white vinyl on the inside of the poly-panel? or black! lol.... they wouldn't complain about it being washed out in the lights anymore at least

 

[Conor Knoxx]

just kidding about the black Pat, and I VERY MUCH appreciate the advice and guidance I find here !
:signs101:

 

[jtinker]

Yeah this will happen a lot if your settings arnt calibrated for your printer / rip.
Our local cable company has tons of light boxes around the place and we do a new batch for em every month.

Were running rolad and versaworks but im sure you can find the settings in whatever youre using.
First change the media profile to what youre printing, or something very close.
Second Look for advance printer settings and see if you can find anything that says Overprint or Multipass. This prints the image multiple times on the same material. We usually go with 2 passes.
Lastly you can bump up the contrast on the image in pre production.

Thats what I learned while producing stuff for wendys and burger king at my last job. Hope it helps.

 

[jtinker]

 

[MikePro]

search dual layer translucent print on these forums for more details
BUT printed white trans. applied first-surface with a clear reverse-print (flipped) applied second-surface (backside) is the best solution for proper day/night color.

adds saturation to the color of the face-print, when illuminated, and makes up for the wash-out.

 

[Conor Knoxx]

thanks everyone, I guess I'll try a couple of small experimental panels and see what I get for effort/cost/results.
Cheers!

 

[N.E.]

I am looking for opinions / experience on the best way to print backlit panels.
I don't do many of them, and just finished one (red / yellow text) that practically disappears when the lights come on
Needless to say, customer is not impressed...
The first "choices" I have to make are material, so rather than trial and error - I'll just ask! :Big Laugh
So I've clear or translucent (white) polycarbonate panels / and clear or translucent (white) vinyl media. Followed by a choice of Matte or Gloss lam (assuming the print is on the outer surface)
Other than that, I can put down more ink.... but I don't find that looks right when the lights are off
Suggestions? (other than not taking these projects in the first place?! )
Thanks in advance!
Conor
(perhaps worth asking as well - would this type of problem be better / worse / the same if we switch the box over to LED lighting?)

What printer are these printing on? If I'm printing backlit on the HP Latex I use a backlit profile that increases the ink density. Same with my Onset flatbed. On the Vutek flatbed you double strike. If it is going to be viewed not backlit during the day then you do a 4 color layer with a white layer over that and a second 4 color layer over that. That gives the density back lit and the white under the 1 layer when daylight.

 

[DesireeM]

My two cents...

Th most common solutions to printing graphics for backlit signs have both been mentioned already.

Option 1 -hit it with 2-passes of ink (which unfortunately ends up looking way too dark during the day) This doesn't work for customers who are particular about the "trueness" of their colors.
It's the cheapest/easiest option but isn't ideal if you want true color day/night.

Option 2 - 2 layer method. There's a couple of ways to go about it. White-translucent print on the front then reverse-clear print on the back. OR how we do it is to print the clear layer (not in reverse) and the exact same thing on the white, translucent vinyl. Then sandwich them together (so basically laminate the clear print using the translucent print) and then apply that combined piece to your acrylic/lexan. We find it easier to register the two prints together.

Option two is more labor and more material but you can always give the customer two prices/options and let them decide if they are willing to pay more for a better quality product.

 

[SightLine]

Double ink does not look good during the day. Looks fine at night though. The 2 separate prints seems to work best for us. If you are doing them with one print on the outside of the acrylic and one on the inside (that's how we do it) then alignment is not very critical as there is already a gap between the prints. Up to 3/16" mis-registration from front to back would in most cases be fine. Maybe if you have some very thin text for an indoor backlit in which case alignment is more critical. For the inside layer we just print the same design again in reverse on laminate. Works great.

 

[Graphics@ToysForTrucks]

what profile

We've had good results with Advantage Sign OPTIMA 8.5 mil polyester film, it's a front print backlit material we print with our L25500 latex machine

what profile do you use with this media?

 

[Sign Eagle]

what profile do you use with this media?

Got the profile off Advantage site Optima Opti Solve PVC 12pass.

 

[Billct2]

search dual layer translucent print on these forums for more details
BUT printed white trans. applied first-surface with a clear reverse-print (flipped) applied second-surface (backside) is the best solution for proper day/night color.

These are the only two solutions I have found to give satisfactory results for faces requiring digital printing.
I use cut translucent vinyl whenever possible.

 

[eahicks]

We've had good results with Advantage Sign OPTIMA 8.5 mil polyester film, it's a front print backlit material we print with our L25500 latex machine

I don't think this is a media you would use for a backlit acrylic sign outside. It's not even adhesive backed, for starters.

 

[Sign Eagle]

I don't think this is a media you would use for a backlit acrylic sign outside. It's not even adhesive backed, for starters.

It's not adhesive back, we use it in back lit directories and other back lit boxes where it is between a white and clear sheet of acrylic.

 

[Brink]

I have printed (ES3 ink 2x overprint) directly to clear laminate (Oraguard 200). Then Laminate that. Then apply the double laminate/ink sandwich to translucent white plexiglass. The plexiglass provides the white background and the print on clear allow backlighting to illuminate the sign very well at night.

The 2x overprint puts down good ink density and the top layer of laminate cuts down on UV making for a reasonably fade resistant product.

It works well for me.

There is also 3M Panagraphics III if your installation all you to stretch translucent vinyl instead of using the Ridged plexiglass/polycarbonate although I'm not a huge fan of 3M products.

Here is an example.

 

[Bly]

If the sign is always on - trans vinyl with increased ink to allow for backlighting.
If it's off during the day and on at night - print on clear with normal profile, lay on opal acrylic then the same print on trans vinyl, laminated, over that.
Align on bench lightbox.

 

[Andy D]

As others have said, the only correct way to print back-lit images is color-white-color.

We print back-lit all day, every day and we now have a printer that we bought specifically because it
prints color-white-color all in the same pass.

Before we got the printer, we would have to print the image twice on clear vinyl, apply one layer and then apply white diffuser,
then register and apply the second layer.