Although we have been in the sign business for several years, we live in a town with very strict sign ordnances. Over the past several years we have produced only a couple signs faces for back lit signs. We printed on Translucent Vinyl and applied it to white Polycarbonate. Both times the signs face seemed a little washed out when lit up. What are are doing wrong? We have an Epson S80600. Do we need to change the settings to lay down a heavier ink cover? We need to produce a backlit sign face that is mostly black with a colored logo in the center. We do not want it to be washed our. Any help would be great.
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Printing Backlit Signs Face's?
- Thread starter Signsup
- Start date
White Haus
Not a Newbie
Solvent inks are translucent and this will be highlighted when backlit.
There are a couple of options to get around this:
1. Double-hit prints on one layer of translucent vinyl (Graphics will look darker during the day, but will backlight better) This is what we usually do.
2. Print one layer on clear and mount to the backside of the sign face. Print one layer on translucent vinyl and apply on the face. (Graphics should theoretically look good day and night)
3. Print graphics with a white ink layer in the mix, end result should be similar to option 2
For the sign face with mostly black background, I would suggest using colored translucent vinyl for the black portion at least - this will take any inkload/washout out of the equation. Depending on how accurate colors need to be for the colored logo, simplest option for that part might be to double hit on your Epson.
There are a couple of options to get around this:
1. Double-hit prints on one layer of translucent vinyl (Graphics will look darker during the day, but will backlight better) This is what we usually do.
2. Print one layer on clear and mount to the backside of the sign face. Print one layer on translucent vinyl and apply on the face. (Graphics should theoretically look good day and night)
3. Print graphics with a white ink layer in the mix, end result should be similar to option 2
For the sign face with mostly black background, I would suggest using colored translucent vinyl for the black portion at least - this will take any inkload/washout out of the equation. Depending on how accurate colors need to be for the colored logo, simplest option for that part might be to double hit on your Epson.
JBurton
Signtologist
Us too, on clear that is. It helps to print a sample, half with two layers and half with one. 99.9% the customer wants the double layer one, but we just had a purple that bucked the trend, since two layers were closer to black than purple during the day. I then tried a layer of white trans over the clear layer to keep the purple from washing out, but the white blocked so much light that instead it looked closer to black when illuminated.
+1 for the black vinyl for the background.
I'm a big fan of arlon 4500g clear for something like this, I'd apply the printed layer to the whole sign face, then cover in black. 4500g doesn't like to have edges exposed to uv, it will shrink and curl. For exposed edges, arlon 6500RP Clear is great stuff.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Use Indy Imaging. They do a three layer print. Color, white and color. That will give you correct color in daytime and night. Double striking will be too dark in daylight. Ordering from them is easier than doing first and second surface vinyl...which is an option.
edcooleyar
Premium Subscriber
We back print these on clear acrylic all the time with our arizona. Layer of color, flood white and a back layer of color.
I don't like doubleprinted. It just comes out wrong during the day, which is when most people see it. We do like White Haus's #2 except we don't put the second print on the back of the face. We print on clear and it goes on the front of the face, then the print on translucent white with overlaminate goes right on top of it. Make them both exactly the same print with a line around the edge, trim right on that line, and registration is super simple. Just put the second print on right on top lined up at the edges.
JBurton
Signtologist
Are you using a clear or white plastic?
I tried this just recently and was very unhappy with the amount of light blocked by the white material, but I was going on white plastic to begin with, so doubly cutting down on light transmission.
White plastic. We have not had any problems with the sign being dim. Not even back when we used fluorescent bulbs. You do have to use translucent white vinyl, not regular sign vinyl.
"Sandwiching" layers of ink in color-white-color is the best way to keep prints from washing out when back lit. The white ink layer also does a good job of preventing colors from looking too dark. Merely printing multiple passes of color ink just doesn't cut it. We tried that with the thermal inkjet printer we used in the past. It didn't work worth a damn. The inks would look too dark in the daylight and would still wash out when back lit.
That's the ideal way to do it if you have a printer that is capable of it. If not, my two layers of vinyl method is second best.
JBurton
Signtologist
I was using arlon 6500RP, claims to be backlit translucent, but the difference was dramatic.
What's your go-to trans white?
Avery MPI2050. You can see the printing on the back of the paper liner through the vinyl on the roll.
I've never really researched translucents much, but it's possible there are some that are meant to be used on clear plastic and others that are meant to be used on white plastic. I've never run across a sign that had clear faces, and have never made one that way.
JBurton
Signtologist
Well I'll get some ordered and see how it looks. Out of curiousity, I was searching for cast instead from my distributors, the arlon I have and 3m ij3630 are the only options, arlon is about $800, 3m is more like $1,800!
JBurton
Signtologist
Only problem I have is on channel letter faces, if the trimcap isn't tight over the face, my go to clear has a tendency to lift and curl, and it basically warrants new faces to be made since removing the vinyl and trying to tuck new vinyl under the trimcap isn't really an option, it'll be in the same position in a year or two. Anywhere the edge is tucked within trim will outlast the ink for sure. That or the laminate starts to brown/burn/whatever.