CanuckSigns
Active Member
yeah that has always bugged me, difference in manufacturing cost can't be more than $200 for a bit more metal and longer wires and ink lines.
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Printing media 101
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
yeah that has always bugged me, difference in manufacturing cost can't be more than $200 for a bit more metal and longer wires and ink lines.
Colin
New Member
I wouldn't want to put pre-grommeted material in my printer; too risky me thinks. Is there any other reason I'd want that adjustable head height feature?
advisionsigns
New Member
The biggest issue I think with the larger printer is dealing with the garbage. My father is keeping all the boxes because we're anticipating some shipments coming up but if we we're trying to throw it all away I feel like our residential garbage men would get rather fed up up with the mass amounts of large boxes and all the craft paper and backing paper scrap. Everytime you order vinyl its two boxes, a core, a 20-30lb roll of wax paper and 150ft of scrap craft paper (if you use craft paper with your laminate to protect your rollers) all 54" long.
Our shop is out back of my parents house so we use residential garbage pickup and so far they haven't said anything but I know some companies are rather strict on stuff like that.
As for the cost I think it's kind of a bastardized convenience charge for the most part. Kind of an it is what it is situation. I do know we haggled the price down roughly 4 grand with our distributor.
Our shop is out back of my parents house so we use residential garbage pickup and so far they haven't said anything but I know some companies are rather strict on stuff like that.
As for the cost I think it's kind of a bastardized convenience charge for the most part. Kind of an it is what it is situation. I do know we haggled the price down roughly 4 grand with our distributor.
Colin
New Member
More good little points to consider - thanks.
Really? What I've come to learn is that Roland has governed this so that all prices from all dealers are the same. "We're not allowed to sell it for less" is what I hear.
advisionsigns
New Member
Really? What I've come to learn is that Roland has governed this so that all prices from all dealers are the same. "We're not allowed to sell it for less" is what I hear.
We had two vendors competing for the sale so maybe that had something to do with it. I actually feel sorta bad about the way it went down but I wasn't the decision maker. I think it's mostly governed by roland controlling the availability in a given region and we just so happened to be midway between two distributors. If either one had known that they were the only vendor we could buy from I think the tune woulda been more like the one you're getting.
Colin
New Member
Well, there's a good number of distributors in my area, and they all give the exact same price. And while I want to deal with the one which will provide good tech support and service, I obviously want to get a good price. Maybe they're permitted to do this by whatever they choose to throw in for media.
advisionsigns
New Member
I'm not sure neither of ours seemed to bat an eye when I asked what they could do for me on pricing. Maybe they're just rebellious down here or something. One thing that was weird is that they gave different prices on the printers and each had a different laminator but the totals they came up with were the same to the penny, but in any case it was significantly cheaper than the MSRP.
W
wetgravy
Guest
I didn't see this answered so here it goes. Matching lamination refers to making sure the laminate profile matches the printing medium it goes on. Certain types (most notably control tac's, or materials with an interweave perf for wraps) have to have a laminate that allows the vinyl to breath and to stretch properly and thus ... needs to have a matching laminate. As for laminates, there are plenty of surface types (glossy, matte, semigloss, eggshell, etc) ... just need to search for them ... but mostly matte and glossy are the only 2 people ask for most of the time. And I agree with the 54" printer talk, go big ... you can still mostly print with smaller rolls, but if you DO need to go big ... you can accomodate that process.
As far as printing mediums is concerned, you really don't need to have them ALL on hand in plenty of over stock. The most my wholesaler keeps on hand is window perf, an economy vinyl, 3m with controltac, a bond paper, an backlit film and 13oz banner material. everything else is a special order and as such requires a 25% special order charge ... and 99% of jobs falls into those materials listed .... pretty much starting out until you can start seeing how much volume you can process with your printer ... i would go simple.
As far as printing mediums is concerned, you really don't need to have them ALL on hand in plenty of over stock. The most my wholesaler keeps on hand is window perf, an economy vinyl, 3m with controltac, a bond paper, an backlit film and 13oz banner material. everything else is a special order and as such requires a 25% special order charge ... and 99% of jobs falls into those materials listed .... pretty much starting out until you can start seeing how much volume you can process with your printer ... i would go simple.
Colin
New Member
Ya, I'm just confused as to the sheen options on the vinyl itself. I plan on stocking a calandered and a cast, but should those be gloss or matte? I've heard a few people say how the matte results in a better print, and the gloss can be problematic, yet when you read the product description on, say, Oracal's site, they say: "This high-performance 2.75-mil, 7-year solvent-based inkjet media features a brilliant gloss-white surface that produces vivid, colorful prints." (3551).
Ya, I hear ya, but $6500 extra for that occasional luxury when I can still sub-out the big print is a hard one to get my head around, given my lower volume.
My boat that I just sold is being picked up in about 4 hours, so next week I'll be ready to buy the printer, and I'm really really really torn on this size thing. There are pros & cons both ways, and I'm still open and appreciative to further reasoning/discussion on this significant decision.
I fully understand how it's "nice" to be able to get into the 48" substrate realm, but a lot of that can be done with the 30" machine using a seam. A few jobs obviously can't or shouldn't be. It's just that the reality is that I am not a store-front commercial lease space, and the amount of jobs that I would get requiring a seamless 48" print I think would be very few and far between, so it would take a long time to pay that $6500 off.
My space is another issue - I could squeeze the 540 in here, but it would be a bit of an albatross.
I feel that the 30" will serve the vast majority of my needs, and I don't want to opt for the 54" if that decision is based on or fueled by: 1) Fear, 2) Overzealousness, or 3) Testosterone.
There's been a couple on this thread who have a similar business situation as mine, and they declare that the 30" works for them just fine. One of my fears is getting the 54" and then finding that dealing with a 54" log or 4x8 (or bigger) print is just too difficult without an extra set of hands. Some have indicated that it wouldn't be that bad; it's hard to know until I do it myself I guess. Or, finding that the occasion that I need to print an image taller than 29"...........is two years from now.
*Oh, and one additional thing: One dealer quoted me $500 more for the Roland Take-Up reel for the 540. Isn't it the same T/U for either the 30" or 54"?
Thanks for listening and commenting.
boxerbay
New Member
Colin - what no one has asked is how close is your supplier(s) and what do they stock?
In my case I just ran out and bought what I needed as the orders came in. We're in Miami Florida and we have 3 suppliers nearby with plenty of stock of everything.
We have a seiko 64s so we stock and use on a regular basis:
Oracal 3640Glossy and 3640Matte
Banner 13oz Star(china) in 60 and 36 cheap stuff
GF Photo paper glossy
GF photo paper matte
We also stock cheapo glossy and matte lam.
I would not recommend to go out and buy car wrap vinyl or any other specialty vinyl without a firm car wrap order unless your supplier is out of town and you will experience extended lead times.
Just get the basics to start and as orders come in buy what you need.
Again depends on your access and lead time to your suppliers and how much money you want to have tied up in rolls of media.
In my case I just ran out and bought what I needed as the orders came in. We're in Miami Florida and we have 3 suppliers nearby with plenty of stock of everything.
We have a seiko 64s so we stock and use on a regular basis:
Oracal 3640Glossy and 3640Matte
Banner 13oz Star(china) in 60 and 36 cheap stuff
GF Photo paper glossy
GF photo paper matte
We also stock cheapo glossy and matte lam.
I would not recommend to go out and buy car wrap vinyl or any other specialty vinyl without a firm car wrap order unless your supplier is out of town and you will experience extended lead times.
Just get the basics to start and as orders come in buy what you need.
Again depends on your access and lead time to your suppliers and how much money you want to have tied up in rolls of media.
boxerbay
New Member
Colin - what no one has asked is how close is your supplier(s) and what do they stock?
In my case I just ran out and bought what I needed as the orders came in. We're in Miami Florida and we have 3 suppliers nearby with plenty of stock of everything.
We have a seiko 64s so we stock and use on a regular basis:
Oracal 3640Glossy and 3640Matte
Banner 13oz Star(china) in 60 and 36 cheap stuff
GF Photo paper glossy
GF photo paper matte
We also stock cheapo glossy and matte lam.
I would not recommend to go out and buy car wrap vinyl or any other specialty vinyl without a firm car wrap order unless your supplier is out of town and you will experience extended lead times.
Just get the basics to start and as orders come in buy what you need.
Again depends on your access and lead time to your suppliers and how much money you want to have tied up in rolls of media.
In my case I just ran out and bought what I needed as the orders came in. We're in Miami Florida and we have 3 suppliers nearby with plenty of stock of everything.
We have a seiko 64s so we stock and use on a regular basis:
Oracal 3640Glossy and 3640Matte
Banner 13oz Star(china) in 60 and 36 cheap stuff
GF Photo paper glossy
GF photo paper matte
We also stock cheapo glossy and matte lam.
I would not recommend to go out and buy car wrap vinyl or any other specialty vinyl without a firm car wrap order unless your supplier is out of town and you will experience extended lead times.
Just get the basics to start and as orders come in buy what you need.
Again depends on your access and lead time to your suppliers and how much money you want to have tied up in rolls of media.
Colin
New Member
Typing with teary eyes. Just watched my boat of 9 years get pulled out of the driveway by some other guy's truck. Lots of good memories. Goodbye old friend. A chapter of my life closed. *sniff*
There's at least half a dozen suppliers in a nearby big smoke. I imagine that between them, most if not all brands are available (except maybe Grimco).
Yes, that's my plan. Thanks for the post.
There's at least half a dozen suppliers in a nearby big smoke. I imagine that between them, most if not all brands are available (except maybe Grimco).
Yes, that's my plan. Thanks for the post.
I've been following this thread since the beginning. It seems to me like you're putting too much thought into this. I understand about the price difference and larger media etc, but the fact is, you don't have to use 54" media just because you have that machine. And you don't have to have a 54 or 60" laminator. I hear of people using the Big Squeege to lam. This might be an option so you can spend the extra money on the bigger printer.
We bought a 30" Roland six years ago. At the time there was never a question as to what we wanted to purchase. We had no reason to need anything any bigger.
Since that time, we have gotten more comfortable with the larger panels and have been doing bigger jobs. We will be looking into the 54" or 60" as soon as our accountant gives us the thumbs up.
What I'm getting at is:
If your business is going to stay a one man band and you don't think you'll ever grow any bigger in jobs or man power, stick with the 30".
If you want to grow you company, do bigger jobs, and hire a "helper", go for the bigger printer. The money you spend now, you will save later.
The machines will not get any cheaper than they are today.
As far as what materials you want to stock. Your customers will dictate that to you.
Dave
We bought a 30" Roland six years ago. At the time there was never a question as to what we wanted to purchase. We had no reason to need anything any bigger.
Since that time, we have gotten more comfortable with the larger panels and have been doing bigger jobs. We will be looking into the 54" or 60" as soon as our accountant gives us the thumbs up.
What I'm getting at is:
If your business is going to stay a one man band and you don't think you'll ever grow any bigger in jobs or man power, stick with the 30".
If you want to grow you company, do bigger jobs, and hire a "helper", go for the bigger printer. The money you spend now, you will save later.
The machines will not get any cheaper than they are today.
As far as what materials you want to stock. Your customers will dictate that to you.
Dave
Colin
New Member
Thanks for the comments. I tend to really research stuff, and I don't feel that I'm over-thinking this because a) It's a considerable chunk of change, and b) The physical footprint in my shop is something that I will have to work around and live with for a long time, so that's really something to consider.
If the 540 wasn't that much more, then I would get it, but I guess if was only a couple grand more than the 30", nobody would buy the 30". Marketing. I just want to get the right tool for the job, and not be sorry either way.
Right, but that would mean a scenerio where I'm now stocking cast & calendered vinyl, laminate, and perf, etc, in two sizes, not just one. For a smaller production shop, that seems counter to where I want go.
Yes, I will not be buying a laminator.
One word which stands out there to me is: "we". What would your thoughts & feelings be if it were just you with no assistance? I mean that sincerely, because if your answer to that is that handling the 54" logs and prints is not a problem based on your experience, then I will consider that.
Yes, where I am one is not even permitted to have an employee with a home-based business (unless they live at the location). So I will not be hiring anyone. When I get really busy, I just put in the hours and get 'er done.
Yes, that makes sense, but I have no intention of growing to the point of a commercial lease space. My home based gig is awesome. You only live once.
Thanks again.
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Colin, the "we" I refer to is my wife and I since it is our business. When it comes time for installs, I am the one who does them. Last month I did a 20'L x 10'H indoor wall with no help. A couple of months ago I did a 10' x 8' window with perf by myself. I don't say this to show if I'm any good, just letting you know it can be done by one person after you get comfortable working with bigger panels.
If I would of had 54" panels, the installs would have been less time and looked better with less seems. You'll understand this after you've had the 30" for awhile.
Again, as far as the media selection, you'll always need something you don't have in stock or you'll have to sub or not do the job. It's part of business and I think some guy named Murphy made this a Law.
Good luck whatever you choose. If it's a Roland and ever need any help, pm me.
Dave
If I would of had 54" panels, the installs would have been less time and looked better with less seems. You'll understand this after you've had the 30" for awhile.
Again, as far as the media selection, you'll always need something you don't have in stock or you'll have to sub or not do the job. It's part of business and I think some guy named Murphy made this a Law.
Good luck whatever you choose. If it's a Roland and ever need any help, pm me.
Dave
Tim Kingston
New Member
Hi,
Not to throw things completely off track but . . . I was wondering if you have considered buying used. I know most people's response is a fear of limited warranty etc. However, given the unfortunate economic climate right now, I think you should be able to get a very good deal. Also, Roland in particular has a very good track record as far as durability and dependability, in my opinion this makes this brand's used printers a very attractive option, as long as you are careful in your selection.
Speaking from experience where I work, we bought a used Roland printer from a reputable company and saved a ton of money ( I'm not the owner but I think they paid about 33% on a printer that was 2-3 years old and was reconditioned to like-new condition).
I was going to say that you could buy a bigger like-new used printer for less than the cost of a new smaller printer. Like most people I would normally advise on a larger printer. However, given your space limitations a smaller printer does make sense.
I just Googled this (no association or endorsement from me personally) but just as an example of what I mean, after just searching for a few seconds. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2UZ97-QSU
PS- another thing to consider to stock is both a grey backed and white backed vinyl in case you need install a backlit or perhaps a window decal and in cases where you want the decal to cover some show through.
Not to throw things completely off track but . . . I was wondering if you have considered buying used. I know most people's response is a fear of limited warranty etc. However, given the unfortunate economic climate right now, I think you should be able to get a very good deal. Also, Roland in particular has a very good track record as far as durability and dependability, in my opinion this makes this brand's used printers a very attractive option, as long as you are careful in your selection.
Speaking from experience where I work, we bought a used Roland printer from a reputable company and saved a ton of money ( I'm not the owner but I think they paid about 33% on a printer that was 2-3 years old and was reconditioned to like-new condition).
I was going to say that you could buy a bigger like-new used printer for less than the cost of a new smaller printer. Like most people I would normally advise on a larger printer. However, given your space limitations a smaller printer does make sense.
I just Googled this (no association or endorsement from me personally) but just as an example of what I mean, after just searching for a few seconds. .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2UZ97-QSU
PS- another thing to consider to stock is both a grey backed and white backed vinyl in case you need install a backlit or perhaps a window decal and in cases where you want the decal to cover some show through.
If I can ask a basic question,what are you going to be printing,what kind of customers do you have,also remember that you are getting a plotter at the same time,so if you go with 54'' you are getting a 54" plotter also. I will repeat what I said earlier in the post, not all materials will be available in 30". My banner business is booming and 30" is just not wide enough.if you want to hem the banner you will be down to what----about 26-27". So if someone wants a simple 3x8 banner you will have to print 2-18"x8' panels,seam them together,hope they match and then hem the edges and throw away 2-12"x8' foot scraps. So that is why the 54" cost more, of course there is not $6,000 more worth of metal, there is $6,000 worth of value. I do not know about everyone else but I do not charge $.32 more per square for cast film because that is how much more per square ft it costs me over calendar.I charge $2-3 more because there is value in film that has the extra life and versitility.