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Pro Colour inks from ALL GRAPHIC Supplies?
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
Colin
New Member
That's a good point about the amount of ink per year. I'm not a high-production shop, so the number of cartridges annually is not a lot.
My new Tech communicated to me that he has always been wary of 3rd party inks, and waited until they had done a lot of testing with this ink over time on various of their in-house machines. He said that he can recommend them with confidence. shrug
My new Tech communicated to me that he has always been wary of 3rd party inks, and waited until they had done a lot of testing with this ink over time on various of their in-house machines. He said that he can recommend them with confidence. shrug
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Let's try a different approach. Instead of what you use a year, what do you use a square foot, presently. About 15 to 25 cents ??
Comes to about a whopping $6.50 for a 48"× 96".
No matter who you are, if you can't do the math on that and make a profit, you're doing something wrong. Now, you wanna halve that $6.50. C'mon, get real.
Comes to about a whopping $6.50 for a 48"× 96".
No matter who you are, if you can't do the math on that and make a profit, you're doing something wrong. Now, you wanna halve that $6.50. C'mon, get real.
rjssigns
Active Member
I said I'd stay out of the 3rd party ink debate for the duration, but I will add this.
Reps, techs, whatever you call them are in business to make money for themselves or the company, period. NO matter what you are BUYING everything is sunshine and roses until something F's up.
That's when you find out you are an imbecile and not using their products correctly.
When will people learn this simple fact: When money is flowing from your pocket to theirs the world is a perfect place and you're their best buddy. Try to get help afterwards and they don't know you.
I've never heard of a single 3rd party ink manufacturer that offers a "warranty":ROFLMAO: ever making good on heads, lines, captops etc...
Reps, techs, whatever you call them are in business to make money for themselves or the company, period. NO matter what you are BUYING everything is sunshine and roses until something F's up.
That's when you find out you are an imbecile and not using their products correctly.
When will people learn this simple fact: When money is flowing from your pocket to theirs the world is a perfect place and you're their best buddy. Try to get help afterwards and they don't know you.
I've never heard of a single 3rd party ink manufacturer that offers a "warranty":ROFLMAO: ever making good on heads, lines, captops etc...
Colin
New Member
Good points on both sides. When one hears of an ink available at half the price, one immediately thinks or feels that they might be at a disadvantage on pricing/quoting if one's competitors are using the cheaper inks. On the other hand, as Gino has pointed out, it's a small part of any given job. On the other hand, the Tech took away about ten empty 440 cartridges yesterday for recycling; there's a $700.00 savings right there.
If there's a 3rd party ink developed which has no deleterious effects on a printer, then it's a no-brainer, but unfortunately only time will bear that out.
If there's a 3rd party ink developed which has no deleterious effects on a printer, then it's a no-brainer, but unfortunately only time will bear that out.
rjssigns
Active Member
If I had the resources I would have a full lab analysis comparing my Roland ink to Triangle, Bordeaux, Marabu etc... Could do the same with any OEM for that matter.
This would put to rest once and for all the claims of "Just like OEM".
My bet is the 3rd party ink manufacturers are relying on one of us NEVER doing this.
Good project for the new year dontcha think?
Colin
New Member
True that. I experienced the banding in the test print within the first year, yet the dealer who I bought it from (who was all gushy making the sale) nor Roland did anything for me.
rjssigns
Active Member
Yup. I have over $800 of 3rd party inks sitting in plain sight so I NEVER forget what a disaster they were.
My wife insists on getting rid of them. I think I'll frame them as a monument to my stupidity.
To the point: It will take me years to recover any money I "saved". Some clients will never come back. They want product, not excuses. Can you put a price on that?
shoresigns
New Member
I think a moderately high volume of printing and a colour calibrated workflow are pre-requisite to 3rd party inks. If you're a small shop and you're running your printer on stock ICC profiles, 3rd party inks will more than likely turn into a nightmare.
Colin
New Member
Yes, that's one point I failed to mention; it does seem to be agreed that a high volume shop can get away with 3rd party inks, but for a printer that might frequently sit idle for a few days through the year, the OEM inks seem to be the better choice. I'd like to know exactly why that is though. Is it the type of solvents used, or what?
rjssigns
Active Member
3rd party ink suppliers constantly exclaim: "We are exactly like OEM just plug and play. Never any mention of color calibrated workflows or other exceptions to avoid "issues".
Now you'll need to explain how stock profiles and non calibrated workflow can damage a printer with 3rd party inks.
I'll wait.
shoresigns
New Member
A printer sitting idle with 3rd party ink in the lines is not what I was referring to, though that could be an issue of its own.
What I meant was, a low volume shop that doesn't run their printer constantly is probably not going to justify the cost of colour profiling their own system. They're more than likely going to be using canned profiles. Then if that low volume shop decides to save a few bucks and switch to 3rd party inks, the moderate difficulties they've had in the past with colour matching turns into a complete nightmare.
See above. I wasn't meaning to imply that a non calibrated workflow would damage the printer, just that 3rd party inks would make a non calibrated workflow even more of a nightmare with colour matching.
rjssigns
Active Member
Fair enough.
Although during my short stint with 3rd party inks in a non-calibrated environment two things stuck out. First was gamut. Have to admit they hit color well. Second thing was the amount of ink used. Holy Cow!!!!! It went through cartridges like they only cost a nickel. Savings? Not so much with what I was running. Add to that it never emptied the cart like OEM does.
Only way I would ever try a third party ink again is if they gave me new heads, lines, cap tops, dampers, gallons of cleaning solution and a pump. And at least a thousand dollars for my labor when I have to put all that stuff in before going back to OEM.
Internet sarcasm needed for the following:
Gee Wally their inks are plug and play. No muss, no fuss. Just whack them in and start printing. Will save us tons of money. The rep said so and he's a good guy. Don't you believe him?
brycesteiner
New Member
Getting in to this business is expensive and I am tempted to use 3rd party inks. They are much less. When putting in my machine, Mutoh offered to double my warranty if I would promise in writing not to use third party inks.
I did. I've read many things about third party inks--enough to scare me. The price is always tempting, but i think I'll wait until after my warranty is up to reconsider. The machine is too expensive to trust a company who is NOT warrantying the machine.
I did. I've read many things about third party inks--enough to scare me. The price is always tempting, but i think I'll wait until after my warranty is up to reconsider. The machine is too expensive to trust a company who is NOT warrantying the machine.