Problem customer accepted installation on Friday, now says color is wrong, etc..

[WCSign]

Challenge her to a duel

 

[TimToad]

Yes you need to get paid. Go above her, send a bill, offer to reprint and give a price, but GET PAID.

Do you have any witnesses to her approving the final layout?

Yes, my co-worker was with me and the office was full of other employees. Not that I'd expect them to cooperate. We were there over three hours, her desk is right next to the wall and not once during the entire installation process did she question anything, pull out the latest proofs or express anything but full satisfaction.

Whatever color difference they are asserting exists must be incredibly minor because we kept extra copies of the last round of proofs so we could see the final print coming off the Roland.

 

[chillGMS]

From what I can see, you are dealing with gray which is the hardest color to reproduce.

Having been in the color business for over twenty + years, you need to establish an understanding with the client that variables do exist for color reproduction. Sign offs and taking ownership is critical since everyone see's color different. So many factors can effect the way color is reflected, we would go as far as showing proofs inside the actual surrounding (Grocery Stores) just to eliminate another variable.

Good Luck.

 

[CES020]

Call a meeting with her and her boss, sit down with them and discuss it and ask what their expectations are. Explain when you left, you were told it was great and to send the check, so you're a bit confused on how it went from "great" to "unacceptable" in a matter of a day or two.

Get them to explain what they expect, if you can do it, fix it and move on, if you can't, tell them you're not willing to do that, remove the graphic and move on.

I promise you if you walk away and leave it up, it'll suddenly be "acceptable" again and they will have gotten it for free. I'd either fix it or remove it.

 

[TimToad]

Call a meeting with her and her boss, sit down with them and discuss it and ask what their expectations are. Explain when you left, you were told it was great and to send the check, so you're a bit confused on how it went from "great" to "unacceptable" in a matter of a day or two.

I'm formulating that question for the owner right now. He has been out of the loop for most of the process and while I thought he and I had worked everything out, she obviously has some sway over his decision making.

What kills me is that the wall surface isn't as smooth as a person of such perfecting standards would demand and they had this 30" circular, 1/2" thick clear acrylic logo cut? sandblasted? lasered? whatever by someone else and the thing is riddled with imperfections and blemishes. How the standard for us is one thing, but the other vendors were allowed to do less than perfect work is a riddle to me.

"Get them to explain what they expect, if you can do it, fix it and move on, if you can't, tell them you're not willing to do that, remove the graphic and move on."

I'm really hesitant to keep throwing good material and labor time after bad because I not only sense but have confirmation from other local colleagues that this is her standard operating procedure and she just grinds people to a pulp until they throw up their hands and cry "uncle"

"I promise you if you walk away and leave it up, it'll suddenly be "acceptable" again and they will have gotten it for free. I'd either fix it or remove it.

"

I agree and her behavior will be empowered to keep doing it to others. I did get a 50% deposit, so the financially bite wouldn't be a complete loss. I also agree with the others who think that any offer to re-do it for nothing is an admission of fault. This thing actually looks pretty cool in person and her boss needs to grow a pair and say, "Look, you've put this guy through your usual ringer several times, he's come back each time and done his best. Let's move on."

 

[mark galoob]

1. how good of a customer are they? if they are a regular customer and they usually spend a lot over the course of the year, redoo, and eat the cost...

if not i would redoo for half price.

2. now i would also not have accepted the job in the first place. here is why, you stated she was very particular about her colors and demanded several proofs regarding that.

i will not color match. i wont do it, its way too much of a pain in the arse. its time consuming, and i have never ever been successful with it. there are so many variables with digital printers that cant be controlled i dont think its possible to to do exact color matching. no i know that there are some software out there and rip programs that can get you to the correct colors, but every human eye sees color differently, so how can you color match when 1 person sees something totally different than what another person sees.

 

[fresh]

fresh,

I'm not sure what your client base looks like or the size of the company you have, but in our case, most larger size companies we deal with have accounting and accounts payable departments and getting a check usually requires sending an invoice to those departments.

We have very few clients on terms, and not a single one would behave this way. There are plenty of customers who claim they have to go through AP, so I send them the invoice ahead of time (which I always do anyway,) and say that I need a check or credit card at the time of delivery. If they don't have it, next time you make them prepay.

You don't need to let them dictate your terms.

 

[TimToad]

1. how good of a customer are they? if they are a regular customer and they usually spend a lot over the course of the year, redoo, and eat the cost...

They are not a good customer at all. The only other time they ordered something from the previous owner of our company has stated that they beat him to death on the pricing for some decals and that's the only time they ever ordered from him in 7 years time. When contacted about doing this job, i had juts taken over the company and really didn't ask many questions about each individual customer. I didn't find out about the demeanor and personality of this customer until after I had been awarded the project.

"if not i would redoo for half price.

They are convinced that they don't have to pay anything extra. PERIOD.... regardless of the circumstances or how many reprints it takes.

"2. now i would also not have accepted the job in the first place. here is why, you stated she was very particular about her colors and demanded several proofs regarding that."

I did not become aware of her extremely heightened level of scrutiny until well into the project.

i will not color match. i wont do it, its way too much of a pain in the arse. its time consuming, and i have never ever been successful with it. there are so many variables with digital printers that cant be controlled i dont think its possible to to do exact color matching. no i know that there are some software out there and rip programs that can get you to the correct colors, but every human eye sees color differently, so how can you color match when 1 person sees something totally different than what another person sees.

We have gone over the variables and even weather induced changes that can affect large format prints with her in the beginning and she let it all go in one ear and out the other once we agreed to do the job. I honestly did my best to make her aware of all the challenges a job like this could include and she hasn't budged an inch on anything.

 

[player]

It is time to give them a bill, with the option to redue it for more money.

If she refuses, go to the owner, or the CEO.

Then sue the beotch.

 

[2B]

bottom line is NO WORK STARTS unless a written approval is signed or an E-mail with approval is gotten.
A verbal approval means NOTHING, as the court of law states it is Hearsay and inadmissible to be used as evidence.

also you need to have a post installation sign-off sheet where you have whoever has authority sign off stating everything is done correctly and there are no issues and the product(s) are received in good condition.


if she is unwilling to budge contact the powers above her, and have them inspect it.
Send the invoice in to AP, you completed the job it was done professionally and now it is time to receive compensation.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Did you know about the concave section of the wall before you showed up to install? If so you should have informed her about the issues and told her that the map will have to be shrunk or else it will appear distorted. You are the professional here.

however if you didn't know, or she told you the wall was flat, it's on her.

 

[TimToad]

Did you know about the concave section of the wall before you showed up to install? If so you should have informed her about the issues and told her that the map will have to be shrunk or else it will appear distorted. You are the professional here.

however if you didn't know, or she told you the wall was flat, it's on her.

I've been explaining to her since the day I came to measure and look at the wall that her design intent of having the lower portion of the continents flow down onto the flat lower space would not work visually and she didn't care.

She and the owner are now claiming that the continents where the two upper panels overlap don't match. I've studied that damn photo for hours and except for one little 1/8" nib on the east coast of South America at the seam, no reasonable person without an agenda could say that overall given the length of the seam and concave nature of the wall, that we didn't nail the matching of the seam.

Its my fault, I should have demanded she sign off on the last proof sheets, but I trusted her boss to relate the details of our discussion where he stated to me "Do the best you can matching the color of the last file sent to you and we'll be thrilled with it" to her and let this thing end. Lesson learned.

I meet with them there tomorrow morning to inspect things. I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful input and despite not feeling any better about the prospects tomorrow, you all have eased my anxiety greatly.

My biggest fear now is that they will expect us to remove the old one and in the process we'll damage the wall and be on the hook for sheetrock repairs.

 

[AnthonyRalano]

Isn't that how life goes? You gave her the world and got nothing in return.

 

[GAC05]

Some times small errors can lead to no win situations.
Stand up for yourself but keep your personal feelings out of it.
Stay professional no matter what they throw at you.
Even if you end up with a loss you leave as the professional.
In the long run it will make you a better businessman.
You'll be ready the next time someone tries to pull this BS.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[phototec]

Call a meeting with her and her boss, sit down with them and discuss it and ask what their expectations are. Explain when you left, you were told it was great and to send the check, so you're a bit confused on how it went from "great" to "unacceptable" in a matter of a day or two.

Get them to explain what they expect, if you can do it, fix it and move on, if you can't, tell them you're not willing to do that, remove the graphic and move on.

I promise you if you walk away and leave it up, it'll suddenly be "acceptable" again and they will have gotten it for free. I'd either fix it or remove it.

I have read the entire post and above posy is the BEST solution of them all.

The only thing I would add, is to have the BOSS stand directly in the center and show him it looks good, and explain the because the upper wall is concave, whenever you move off center (left or right), the upper and lower images will never line up, (bad design for this application), and the artwork was provided, so you had NOTHING to do with the layout.

The only way to fix this is to have the graphic printed on ONLY the upper concave wall section and a different (no aligning) graphic on the lower flat wall section.

And if they decide to do that, it's a whole NEW job and you will have to charge for removal of this graphic and installation of the new graphic.

Keep us informed on how your meeting goes, and GOOD LUCK.

I pray the GOD of wisdom will prevail....

 

[MagnificentBastid]

I'm not sure what vinyl you used, but i'm wondering if the grey shifted in color because of the difference between the white point of the backer and the color of the wall. Some vinyls can have some transparency to them even if advertised as opaque. Also the lighting could have been different from where she signed off, to where the install took place.

Anyway, we know how you feel as we get clients like that from time to time. You just need to determine if they are worth your time and learn to walk away if they're not. I would bill this client and move on, you've already did everything you could on your end to help.

 

[AKProbeGT]

Good luck. Some days it feels like you just can't win.