Problem Printing on Glossy Vinyl (Spotting/Orange Peel)

[SpeedproSOC]

This is my first post on these forums. Hopefully you all can help me out.

I have a constant issue with printing when it comes to glossy vinyl. It doesn't seem to matter who makes it or whether its cast or calendared or anything else. But it seems that every print has a "spotting" or "orange peel" effect. The color does not seem to spread evenly and if you look really close at any print, its like you can see all the ink dots. Ive tried multiple profiles and nothing really seems to solve the issue. Is this just something that is expected with glossy vinyl? Or is there something else I can do to help reduce this problem?

Does anyone else have this issue?

I am printing on an XR-640 using VersaWorks.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Mike Paul]

What kind / brand of vinyl?

Are heat setting being set from the software side or do you have the software set to use heat settings from the printer?

 

[Salmoneye]

I am curious to follow this thread and see the answers and what you find works. I think it might end up being heat related as well. Maybe there is a tutorial on different heat settings and effects.

 

[KingofProcrasta]

I think you may be seeing the dither pattern under magnification? I sort of see the same thing on glossy media but live with it as the option is to go with a color management system including a RIP other than VW. I find the quality acceptable.

Attached are a couple of photos of a recent job on glossy calendared media, the overall poster is 24x36 and a closeup area to show dot pattern. Is what you are seeing similar?

 

[SpeedproSOC]

What kind / brand of vinyl?

Are heat setting being set from the software side or do you have the software set to use heat settings from the printer?

It happens on multiple types/brands of glossy vinyl. Avery MPI 1005, 3M IJ180, Oracal 3651 Glossy etc. I have tried using the icc profile to determine the heat settings and ive tried setting them myself. Generally speaking it is the software that sets the heat setting though.

 

[SpeedproSOC]

I think you may be seeing the dither pattern under magnification? I sort of see the same thing on glossy media but live with it as the option is to go with a color management system including a RIP other than VW. I find the quality acceptable.

Attached are a couple of photos of a recent job on glossy calendared media, the overall poster is 24x36 and a closeup area to show dot pattern. Is what you are seeing similar?

Its hard for me to tell from the image you've shown. Here is the best picture I could get illustrating the issue.

 

[P Wagner]

Its hard for me to tell from the image you've shown. Here is the best picture I could get illustrating the issue.


View attachment 100359 View attachment 100360

Is that vector art?

 

[SpeedproSOC]

Is that vector art?

This particular example, no its not vector, but it happens with vector/raster the same.

 

[the graphics co]

based on the picture posted, that is a typical output for an eco solvent print. No one is going to be inspecting the color from less than a few feet away. The minor amount of mottling there could be improved by creating your own profiles, but, that will never completely go away on a glossy vinyl.

 

[Drip Dry]

Not sure what printer your using but, I use Roland with Versaworks.

When I get orange peeling, it's almost always because of no heat.

We also use the standard glossy media profile ( GCCP or something like that ) for oracal 3651

 

[P Wagner]

based on the picture posted, that is a typical output for an eco solvent print. No one is going to be inspecting the color from less than a few feet away. The minor amount of mottling there could be improved by creating your own profiles, but, that will never completely go away on a glossy vinyl.

I am curious about how you feel latex ink compares in terms of uniformity of solids when compared with eco-solvent ink sets? I see in your profile that you have or have used both Roland and HP Latex machines.

 

[SpeedproSOC]

Not sure what printer your using but, I use Roland with Versaworks.

When I get orange peeling, it's almost always because of no heat.

We also use the standard glossy media profile ( GCCP or something like that ) for oracal 3651

I am using the XR-640. I have tried multiple profiles and multiple heat settings. Is this just something that is to be expected with glossy media?

Is it acceptable to print on matte media and gloss laminate it to get better results?

 

[SpeedproSOC]

Gloss finish is definitely harder to print on. Have you tried slowing head speed down? The most common gloss media I print on is 3M IJI80cv3 and I downloaded the respective profiles for our XC-540 and XR-640 and both work fairly well. Slowing down the head speed sometimes I find is necessary, as well as cranking the heat and making sure your feed calibration is set properly.

All things that help with any media but make a bigger difference on gloss as it's a little more picky.

What kind of gloss media are you using? We started using 3651 matte after running into some issues like you described and it prints much better.

As for you question, yes printing on matte and using a gloss laminate will produce a gloss finish - so unless matte isn't available there is no advantage to printing on gloss as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the tips Pat.

I have tried slowing the head speed down. It was recommended that I slow it down to 760mm/sec so that's what I'm running now. What heat settings do you find work best for you? Currently I use 37,37,55.

I am using 3651 gloss, that is our default gloss calendared media. IJ180 is our default cast gloss media.

 

[hyperdrive]

Im guessing here, but its 720x720 or 540x720. I have profiled all medias with no better quality than you sho.. I use 1400X720 to eliminate that I wont use versa either.. I print direct from flexisign to my xr, definately yeilds better results...

 

[SpeedproSOC]

I have seen marked improvement recently with my glossy printing job with the increase in heater temperatures. I used to run at 37/37/55 at the recommendation of our franchise support staff, but i have increased it to 40/40/55 and the level or orange peel/spotting has really decreased.

Thanks for the help guys.

On a side note, a few have mentioned created my own profiles would serve me best. The software we have to create profiles is locked unless we purchase a dongle to unlock it and the shop wont spring for it. Is there another way to create profiles?

 

[rturner381]

Matte or Gloss?

I am using the XR-640. I have tried multiple profiles and multiple heat settings. Is this just something that is to be expected with glossy media?

Is it acceptable to print on matte media and gloss laminate it to get better results?

Good day,

I have been told by professional photographers they prefer printing to matte because of better control of dot gain, thus producing a crisper image.

If you are laminating anyway, then matte should give you a sharper image.