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Problem Weeding Orajet 3651G

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by readmore, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Apr 15, 2009
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    I'm brand new to the sign making biz so please go easy on me.

    We just got a Roland VersaCamm VP-300 and a roll of Orajet 3651G and some other sample material which is I believe 3165G. I am doing a small job that is text only about 3/4 inch in height (Print +Cut) and having a hard time weeding the letters. When I peel the material the letters come right up with it. Test cut works at about 130gf, however the job doesn't.

    -Tried a new blade (both 60 and 45)
    -Tried Printing and leaving it for an hour then cutting
    -Changed the blade force from 80 - 180 (and all in between)
    -Tried job with cut only
    -exposed more blade
    -exposed less blade
    -Using proper profile(s)

    When I look close at the cut and seperate it slowly it looks like there is a thin membrane of adhesive that is holding the text to the material but there are score marks on the backing so it's confusing. Sometimes I can pick at the text before weeding and a section of the backing will come up with it.

    Has anyone had similar problems? Should I use different material for small text like that? Any suggestions for material?

    Like I said it's new to me and I've spent hours on the phone with the tech guys with no solution.

    help!!
     
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  2. omgsideburns

    omgsideburns Very Active Member

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    does the cutting strip on your plotter look like the grand canyon?
     
  3. signmeup

    signmeup Major Contributor

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    Small stuff is hard to weed. Try some cast vinyl and see if that helps.
     
  4. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Apr 15, 2009
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    The strip is new or at least I don't see any wear.

    Does having the heater on cause the adhesive to "melt" back together?

    Also the heater light on our machine keeps flashing green. I assume green means OK but flashing?
     
  5. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    You need to learn how to weed. Alpha from right to left, numeric from left to right. Always keep a light finger on the material you want to stay on the backing slifing that finger along as you pull up the excess. Remove the excess material with a series of gentle pops rather than a continuous pull. Move the hand holding the excess in a slight back and forth zig zag motion rather than pulling it straight off.

    Like many things, it's a learned skill. Not rocket surgery, but you still have to learn it.
     
  6. Bill43mx

    Bill43mx Member

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    We cut 3651G regularly with our versacamm and use 50 grams of pressure. Are you cutting this laminated or unlaminated? If it's without laminate I believe your cutting force is much too high...you really shouldn't be scoring the backing. Even with 8 mil laminate we're only at 130 grams. I do have the same issue weeding unlaminated 3651 that you are mentioning and find it helps to hold down the leading edge of the letters with a weeding tool while you peel the excess vinyl off. Once the excess innitially "breaks free" from the letter the rest of the way around the letter goes pretty smoothly.
     
  7. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Apr 15, 2009
    Canada
    This is unlaminated. And thanks for all your responses!! I'm doing a little reading on the different materials and am going to try with a lighter pressure and practice my weeding technique. If I have any results I'll be sure to post it in case someone else has the same trouble.
     
  8. Doyle

    Doyle Very Active Member

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    45 degree blade should work fine, and if sections of the backing are ripping up with vinyl, then your force is too high.... on my sp300v I use 60gf for 3651 unlaminated, and about 160 for laminated with oraguard 210.

    Are you printing full bleed and cutting through heavily printed letters? If so, these can be a pain to weed, and I have found it easier to let the printed/cut vinyl to sit for a few hours before weeding and it's a lot easier.
     
  9. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    Actually Bob....


    Printing, laminating and contour cutting vinyl, not going to happen. I won't even attempt letters that small if I am printing. ESPECIALLY on air release. In my opinion, it simply cannot, be effectively done.

    Switch to just a regular vinyl that isn't printed and cut that, about your best option.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  10. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Perhaps a different set of the laws of physics apply in my shop. I do it all the time. If you experience problems perhaps either you don't know what you're about or you're accursed.
     
  11. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    Or you're full of BS. :rock-n-roll:
     
  12. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Apr 15, 2009
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    It's strange. If I do a test cut with anything under 100gf the square comes up with the circle (technical I know). This is with the 3651. Originally it was a print+cut with full bleed, but currently I've been trying to figure this out with just the cut, so I haven't actually printed ink with it for several days. Been trying to solve this since last week.

    I have created a new file to try with the heater off so that's my next step.. and practicing the weeding techniques people have suggested.
     
  13. DRamm76

    DRamm76 Member

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    Hmmm Haven't heard that one before. If the graphic contains smaller fonts and highly detailed lettering you may want to try to change the offset of the blade. Sometimes force has nothing to do with it as much as the angle of the blade. Try increasing it slightly and see if that helps.

    To save on material, I would try to clip a tile of the most difficult part you're working with and test it.

    If you want to message me privately, you can send me the image and I would be more than happy to test it on my machine in our showroom
     
  14. Bill43mx

    Bill43mx Member

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    One other suggestion....I personally haven't done this with the Oracal 3651 but I have found it makes a huge difference when weeding heat transfer material. Cool the material down before you try to weed it! We were printing heat transfers during the winter and were having a tough time weeding them. I found that putting them on a counter next to a slightly open window for a few minutes (or even holding them against the cold glass) made weeding much easier. I seem to remember someone posting about putting vinyl in the freezer for a few minutes prior to weeding it.
     
  15. threads1

    threads1 Member

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    Ocean City, Maryland
    Hello readmore....I have the 540 and for just cutting I have been turning the heat off. I use 70 downforce and it's doing pretty good. Weeding has been a learning process for me also. Another thing you might want to look at is the bottom of your blade holder. Take it out and be sure it's not loaded up with dry ink. You can easily wipe it off. This tiny build-up can hold your blade back from the proper cutting depth.
     
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