Process.

[signspark1988]

What do most people do here when estimating to customers?

A) Do a rough sketch along with an estimate?

B) Get a rough estimate approved then work on a rendering?

 

[JTBoh]

I'm originally a production guy that is good at sales, and who has gotten good at design.
I work for a shop, not an owner. If I send a job to our GD, it goes in his queue - and it takes longer for me to get a project out.
I use design/build as a sell tool - many people are visual and it helps. I'll usually provide one full draft, and say any changes can be made after a deposit. (though I've made exceptions to this based on size of order)

NOTE: I sell a lot of fabricated signs - it's my main focus. On smaller vinyl/windows/etc. I don't bother usually - but anything over around a grand it's worth it for me (and my conversion ratio) to put in an hour or so. It also clears up the GD to work on "shop" projects, which keeps him busy enough.

 

[OhioSigns]

My policy is that I do not start artwork until the estimate is approved, signed and deposit is made unless the customer is paying for the artwork before committing to the full job. I stay very busy and don't have the extra time to create artwork for free for tire-kickers. I used to try and do a mock-up to go with estimates and got burnt out on working for free. I found that those customers would take the design to other shops and ask how much they could do that job for...... and vice versa I've had customers bring designs from other shops that spent the time creating artwork for their projects to try and see if they could get a better deal. Customers think that the artwork appears out of thin air and should be a free service........ I charge for my time whether it's design time or production.

 

[Sign Pro Salina]

Get a 50% deposit or full payment first before spending any time on artwork. As was stated above, there are a lot of "tire-kickers" who can waste your time. A lot of time can be spent and then they decide not to do the project, or shop it around to other shops and then you see you artwork on their signage. Only exception would be a customer who is established and we have terms setup, then they would get a proof before any payment is made.

 

[decalman]

There's some varables on how to proceed.
If you live in a small town, and are working out of your garage, and have lots of time on your hands, then.....why not crank out a little free art work. I'm in my slow season right now, and I'll do all kinds of time wasting free stuff.

When October rolls around,
I want to be payed for just saying hello

 

[equippaint]

It sounds like you should do what you see fit depending on how busy you are, how the customer acts, potential future business etc. Your reputation and how the customer found you has a lot to do with how much effort you will need to extend to land the business too. No 2 customers are the same, some you want to farm and others need the boot, your efforts should match your desired outcome.
Ive spent a bunch of time on $100 worth of hard hat decal designs knowing full well that it will bring me the $1-2k larger jobs from the same people without question.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I play it by ear and feel the customer out. If they are ordering something less then 1k I require payment before doing any design work. If it's a larger order I will generate "sales art".

 

[AKwrapguy]

What do most people do here when estimating to customers?

A) Do a rough sketch along with an estimate?

B) Get a rough estimate approved then work on a rendering?

Sometime you gotta fell out the client like Texas said. But the blanket 'rule' is that a PO and/or a CC needs to be on file to start any work/proof.

 

[visual800]

In my area, my art sells the signs (well it used to be that way) I feel them out if they are tire kicking I send them right on down the line. If I lay out something classy that suits their needs and they counter me with some tacky a$$ pinterest layout I send them packing. The designs and art in this area are freaking horrible. Too many "do it yourself" designers out there

 

[Gino]

I kinda think it depends on what you are quoting. A truck, a yard sign, sign for a front lawn, electric sign or whatever.

I'm lucky, in that, I can whip up a simple sketch and show the people immediately I/we have the ability to do the job. Doing a thumbnail also gives them a visual idea without being able to take something with them. For a truck a small sign, this almost always works.

Somehow, I usually do a thumbnail for them and tell them....... to proceed, their signature, dating the quote sheet and the required deposit will give them computer generated sketches for the bigger jobs.

 

[player]

No money, no funny.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

No money, no funny.

You got it twisted... Funny money is NO money.

 

[Active Sign]

What about channel letters and and exterior building signs?

Almost have to make a good mock-up to find the right size and design for the building so you quote the right thing.

Anybody have a slick way of doing this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rick]

What about channel letters and and exterior building signs?

Almost have to make a good mock-up to find the right size and design for the building so you quote the right thing.

Anybody have a slick way of doing this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Slick? If I go by the Urban Dictionary version of this:
"Perfect in manner; sharp, attentive, having perfect answers for virtually all questions"

I only design signs but it's been the same process for the past 30+ years at every shop I worked at...

The process is:
-- Get the information from the client - placement(s) if no logo than a means to get one (or design one)
-- If the client has one, get the logo in vector format - or convert it to vector
-- Have client supply a CSP: Most centers in California have "Comprehensive Sign Program" - review that to see what is required and/or allowed
-- Check Municipal Code
-- Plans (if needed) or Survey areas once you determine where the signs are allowed to go.
-- Take into your design program and design in scale - I use Illustrator with CADTools
Usually the submittal includes a location plan, elevation(s) and side view (either architectural or photo rendering) and maybe a section view (if going to a vendor)

Unless the client pays for your time, they should never be sent the drawing... the second you put measurements on it, any sign shops can bid off of it.
All the years I've been doing this, every sign shop I worked at did this at no cost. To most sign shops, it was part of the "sales" expense.

"Slick" is not fast, most shops are prepared to eat a min. of around 2 hours bidding on basic channel letters or building signs.

 

[bmt Promotions]

If you live in a small town, and are working out of your garage, and have lots of time on your hands, then.....why not crank out a little free art work. I'm in my slow season right now, and I'll do all kinds of time wasting free stuff.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I'll do a quick scaled drawing in Illustrator using CADtools which I will use to prepare the estimate. Often I will add a perspective corrected photo of the building or structure.

Graphic design work is estimated separately, as it usually effects more than just a sign.

I have no problem with people shopping my drawing around. The customers that are going to nickel/dime me on price are usually customers I don't want anyhow. I put a copyright notice on my drawings. If I see my art on a sign without permission, I'll send a registered letter to the owner and give them the opportunity to buy the usage rights before I take legal action.

 

[Stacey K]

I no longer do any computer design work until they are committed. I rough sketch as they talk to me and show them samples of my past work as we chat so we can both get on the same page. Most of the time they say - go ahead and they commit. Make sure you have plenty of photos of all your work, it helps a lot!

If the samples I have to offer of my past work isn't "proof enough" or "not their style" then it's best they go elsewhere because they are likely shopping around.

 

[rjssigns]

I no longer do any computer design work until they are committed. I rough sketch as they talk to me and show them samples of my past work as we chat so we can both get on the same page. Most of the time they say - go ahead and they commit. Make sure you have plenty of photos of all your work, it helps a lot!

If the samples I have to offer of my past work isn't "proof enough" or "not their style" then it's best they go elsewhere because they are likely shopping around.

Ding ding. Your last sentence nails it.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I no longer do any computer design work until they are committed. I rough sketch as they talk to me and show them samples of my past work as we chat so we can both get on the same page. Most of the time they say - go ahead and they commit. Make sure you have plenty of photos of all your work, it helps a lot!

If the samples I have to offer of my past work isn't "proof enough" or "not their style" then it's best they go elsewhere because they are likely shopping around.

Most of the time customers that contact me already want me to do the sign. If they need to see some examples we can usually just step outside and I can point to them (or they can go to my web site). What they want to know is "how much?" and "how soon?". Projects vary a lot, but often include a site survey and mock ups. I need to research code, contact the landlord, and send out drawings to my fabricators and installers to get pricing. Quite often I present alternatives to their original idea. Drawings are essential to communicate intent. Once we have decided on the scope of the project I can prepare an estimate.

When I visit a client I carry a pocket sketchbook and scribble in it as we talk. I do not carry a computer (well, I have an iPhone). I'm just trying to get an idea of what the client wants and eliminate some options that are not feasible. When we are done talking, I will go out to the truck and get my survey tools.

Although it occasionally happens, it is usually bad practice to give a price and get a commitment at the first meeting. Most of the time I will give the client options and different pricing tiers. Often there is an opportunity for add-on sales, maintenance contracts, content management for digital displays, and other branding and design work.

It is important to know that I separate sign work from graphic design. If the client wants (or I can convince them that they need) design work, I don't lift a pencil until I have a contract for the graphic design (well, I might do some quick scribbles to clarify intent). I can usually still work out an estimate for sign work, but the final sign contract will be prepared after the design work is done.

 

[Stacey K]

YES! Most everyone that walks in the door is already committed. I don't do a lot of installs and the largest sign I will make is 4'x8'. For larger jobs, we almost have to provide some type of sketch or limited design to provide an accurate estimate. For smaller jobs, like Tee-Shirt guy last week who wanted to me design his racing shirt so he could compare it to XXX who made them for him last year...NOPE. I showed him my past work, sketched what I could from his ideas and sent him timely estimates. I'm quite sure he called me a name when he left but I'm OK with that...and...he might not be the only one. Chances are XXX has no intentions of getting into an art competition with me either. I'm guessing almost everyone's customers walk in saying, "I saw the sign/shirt/van you did for XXX and I loved it, what can you do for me?" - this person is already 99% more committed than Tee-Shirt guy and worth at the least a nice sketch and maybe even some limited computer design along with the estimate.