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Profile for Canvas

Discussion in 'Roland' started by Sticky Signs, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Sticky Signs

    Sticky Signs Very Active Member

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    I've been using canvas from a few different companies and always try to get the proper profile for the material. I find that all the profiles for canvas look like crap. All the dark colors get lost and usually turn black. Bright colors are usually muted and the overall look is not very good. I've messed around with contrast, highlights etc, etc, etc in my files to make them look good however this is a time consuming shot in the dark. I'm wondering if anyone has a good profile so that canvas prints look like they're suppose to.
    I'm using a roland XC-540 and versa works.

    Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
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  2. centinela

    centinela New Member

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    Nov 21, 2010
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    I´m using a solvent ink mimaki cjv30 and have the same problem. I want to get richer colors from my prints. any one has a recomendation on profiles?
     
  3. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Before you run out into traffic seeking Yet Another profile you might want to review your rendering intents and dither algorithm settings.

    Profiles are highly overrated. If you understand your hardware and know what you're about you only need one or two. Those that don't quite get this are doomed to wander the planet like some sort of flying Dutchman in a fruitless quest for that magic profile that's going to make everything all right.

    Many yards of canvas are printed in this shop on a Mutoh ValueJet using a profile for Oracal 3651 with the highest quality dither algorithm and the rendering intents set to 'No Color Correction' for everything except bitmaps which are set to 'Perceptual'. Not just canvas, but virtually everything is printed with this profile and these settings. The only thing that ever varies are the heater settings. There also is a profile for 3m180C that is seldom used since no one has yet been able to detect any real difference between this profile and the Oracal profile.

    This profile was chosen because it produces a quite satisfactory Pantone chart on whatever media thus far tried. I'm sure that there are other profiles that will do as good, perhaps a taste better, but life is short and this one serves just fine.

    There are those that would disagree and perhaps have a separate profile for all manner of different circumstances. There doesn't ever seem to be any detectable difference between output from this shop and from theirs.
     
  4. jwright350

    jwright350 Member

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    Nov 17, 2010
    Once I actually got a color meter and wrote a profile (using flexi) I realized thats where all the magic happens. The profile, in combination with the media's ability to hold ink is about 95% of what your output looks like. Its a 1 hour process that will save you so much time, ink and material you'll pay off the color meter in no time. I use a simple i1.

    But like bob said... once you do get a good profile for your machine you probably are going to use the same one most of the time. But, when you switch between print speeds/modes/resolution you'll usually need a new profile. I basically have high speed and low speed profiles I use 75% of the time.

    Also, make sure you are using canvas that is treated for eco solvent ink... most of the stuff I've seen is actually for high solvent (fisher textiles and re-brands). Printing on material with unknown ink adhesion is a mess (literally). Sounds to me like your canvas is absorbing too much ink. This would mean you need a smaller ink limit at the print speed you are using. Unfortunately this limits your gamut as well I find.

    I would assume you have already tried cranking up the heat and printing slow, and also turning off the heat and printing fast. Sometimes that works in a bind.
     
  5. Jet Fast Printing

    Jet Fast Printing Member

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    Sep 22, 2009

    Same Here, Looks Great!
     
  6. FKAT

    FKAT New Member

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    Sep 23, 2009
    If 'rendering intents' and 'dithering algorithms' are critical to good results on canvas (or any other product), than the profile you use is critical.

    The rendering intent performs according to the profile's capabilities and the overall gamut of the profile.

    Perceptual Rendering: will bring colors that are out of gamut, into gamut and move colors within gamut in respective position to the out of gamut colors that were brought in. This will reduce any 'posterization' or blocking of color. Ultimately producing better gradients and skin colors. Like Bob stated, best for bitmaps.

    Colorimetric or Relative Colorimetric: will produce color with more 'pop', since colors are not softened by moving colors that are within (the profile’s) gamut. Using this rendering intent, will bring out of gamut colors into gamut, but leave colors in gamut in place. Again, this produces more intense color, but you run the risk of posterized output (especially with gradients and areas of color at the outer limit of the profile’s gamut).

    As jwright350 stated, use canvas materials intended (coated) for eco or mild solvent. Canvas developed for hard or hot solvents will produce dull color when used with eco-solvent ink. This is paramount.

    And, profiles are essential to getting the proper results. Use the right profile.

    The (right) profile contains the right amount of ink per channel of color. These channels are properly linearized*. This influences the total ink limit of the profile. And ultimately, based on these two criteria, the ICC target (gamut) of the profile is developed. All 3 components give you the correct color (pop, density and most capability).

    * Linearization of ink is what makes the digital formula of the color, print the right amount of ink to produce the color you 'intended' to get.
     
  7. jwright350

    jwright350 Member

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    Nov 17, 2010
    I talked to one of my material suppliers today...he recommends Hurcules (sp?) from Fisher Textiles if you are doing outdoor use. Its coated for eco solvent. He showed me a sample..not exactly an art canvas, but its a nice oxford weave material similar to what those pop-up tent canopies are made from.
     
  8. FKAT

    FKAT New Member

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    Sep 23, 2009
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