How difficult is it to create a HQ profile on a flatbed device meant for acrylic printing? Advice on hardware? I have done a little profiling using a DTP41 some years back, but am certainly not an expert. Most of it seems pretty automated, feeding strips, etc. Perhaps a little different profiling thick acrylic prints however. The printer in question is a Mimaki JFX200. Thanks.
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Profiling Acrylic Prints
- Thread starter D3D
- Start date
Are you using only the profiles that came with the printer then? My immediate concern is getting neutral grays for a project I am looking at.
Strange to hear the LED lamps are causing your acrylic to bow. . . I thought that was only a problem with the older style lamps. Is this a common problem?
boxerbay
New Member
I dont have LED lamps. I dont have a JFX200
getting a neutral grey from a CMYK printer will be challenging.
If you truly want a high quality acrylic you should be printing it on a 12 color canon on glossy photo paper or metallic photo paper and then face mounting the print on to the acrylic. thats is what we do.
getting a neutral grey from a CMYK printer will be challenging.
If you truly want a high quality acrylic you should be printing it on a 12 color canon on glossy photo paper or metallic photo paper and then face mounting the print on to the acrylic. thats is what we do.
I do lenticular printing, acrylic was just my entry into a conversation since most people aren't familiar with the process and they both share similarities. All of my lenticular work has involved facemounting prints on polyester film to lenticular plastics, some quite large, which as you know is a much more difficult process than printing to directly to plastic. I am evaluating the Mimaki JFX200 as a possible addition to the workflow, probably not replacing the inkjet/lamination but from what I see so far there are potentially many jobs that could be produced at a very high quality on the JFX200. Correct Color seems to think any machine can be profiled to achieve neutral gray (with his services anyway
but I was hoping for some direct experience from others on the JFX200, and whether this can reasonably be done with an investment in the right equipment or if there really is some trick to it that justifies hiring a professional with experience.The RIP that comes with the Mimaki (RasterLink) cannot be profiled without their profiling software, which I've heard is in the neighborhood of $4k. I've never done it, but it's on the docket to learn and do.
If you use a RIP like Onyx with internal profiling ability, you still obviously need the hardware (I1, etc). If you have a RIP like Wasatch, you can linearize and ink limit in the RIP, but need a 3rd party SW for the profile. I use old-school Profile Maker V5, and it works very well. Getting a neutral gray shouldn't be a problem.
I don't know the lenticular printing process very well, so I hope that makes sense and helps.
That said, Mimaki should have decent canned profiles for your solution if you go that route. Profiling your exact set up is always the best case solution, especially if money isn't an option.
If you use a RIP like Onyx with internal profiling ability, you still obviously need the hardware (I1, etc). If you have a RIP like Wasatch, you can linearize and ink limit in the RIP, but need a 3rd party SW for the profile. I use old-school Profile Maker V5, and it works very well. Getting a neutral gray shouldn't be a problem.
I don't know the lenticular printing process very well, so I hope that makes sense and helps.
That said, Mimaki should have decent canned profiles for your solution if you go that route. Profiling your exact set up is always the best case solution, especially if money isn't an option.
Pauly
Printrade.com.au
First I'd like to mention that I have no experience with your printer or software.
So I'm sure the printer is more than capable of producing great colour and good neutrals.
Your software on the other hand? Seems like it can't do it from the comments.
Profiling acrylics and glass can be quite tricky, or fun. (We specialise in glass printing)
First off, you'd need some good software. You will probably need a new RIP. (which might not be a bad thing) I have Onyx thrive x12. I keep it up to date. I haven't used other RIPs before but yes i would recommend onyx. It's quite solid. Onyx has other rips like postershop ect but i don't know the differences. IICR Thrive is their flagship software.
From here you can go 3 ways.
First way - You get onyx, download their profiles for your printer. Which will be made in onyx. There should be an array of profiles for generic papers and and there should be one for acrylic or it will be a layered print with white which will probably be acceptable for most people. You can go into the media manager and edit the profile. Change the settings and do a very high GCR. Which using a lot more black ink. easiest way to get a good neutral grey with minimal colour casts. How well the colours will be? No idea, depends how good the profile was made from the beginning. test some settings and away you go.
Second way - Get Onyx or another rip that can be profiled. Then hire someone like Correct Color (IICR he prefers onyx)
Third way, This gets expensive very quick. - Get Onyx (or another RIP).I'm going to say the X Rite devices would be out of the question as we couldn't get the i1 pro to read through the glass. Didn't try it on acrylic, But never bothered to be honest.
You'd probably need a higher end device like the Barbieri Spectropad or even the LFP. Barbieri doesn't come with any profiling software so you have to either A) do it though onyx's engine (Which i don't like) OR B) purchase a 3rd party software like the i1 profiler, or basiccolor or similar. (I use both, but more now basiccolor)
IMO i wouldn't go the third way, unless you it's your own business, and you're dedicated to get the best possible profiles out of every media you print on.
So I'm sure the printer is more than capable of producing great colour and good neutrals.
Your software on the other hand? Seems like it can't do it from the comments.
Profiling acrylics and glass can be quite tricky, or fun. (We specialise in glass printing)
First off, you'd need some good software. You will probably need a new RIP. (which might not be a bad thing) I have Onyx thrive x12. I keep it up to date. I haven't used other RIPs before but yes i would recommend onyx. It's quite solid. Onyx has other rips like postershop ect but i don't know the differences. IICR Thrive is their flagship software.
From here you can go 3 ways.
First way - You get onyx, download their profiles for your printer. Which will be made in onyx. There should be an array of profiles for generic papers and and there should be one for acrylic or it will be a layered print with white which will probably be acceptable for most people. You can go into the media manager and edit the profile. Change the settings and do a very high GCR. Which using a lot more black ink. easiest way to get a good neutral grey with minimal colour casts. How well the colours will be? No idea, depends how good the profile was made from the beginning. test some settings and away you go.
Second way - Get Onyx or another rip that can be profiled. Then hire someone like Correct Color (IICR he prefers onyx)
Third way, This gets expensive very quick. - Get Onyx (or another RIP).I'm going to say the X Rite devices would be out of the question as we couldn't get the i1 pro to read through the glass. Didn't try it on acrylic, But never bothered to be honest.
You'd probably need a higher end device like the Barbieri Spectropad or even the LFP. Barbieri doesn't come with any profiling software so you have to either A) do it though onyx's engine (Which i don't like) OR B) purchase a 3rd party software like the i1 profiler, or basiccolor or similar. (I use both, but more now basiccolor)
IMO i wouldn't go the third way, unless you it's your own business, and you're dedicated to get the best possible profiles out of every media you print on.
Correct Color
New Member
D3D,
Pauly here is a really good guy who has worked for literally years fighting to get good color off of an Oce Arizona printing on glass with Onyx. He's been on just about every forum on the Internet searching for answers, and I'd wager has spent well into the tens of thousands of dollars on hardware and software alone, let alone his time and materials. Just having read his posts on other forums over the years, if I had to put a total value on his pursuit of color profiles, I'd put it at north of 50 grand.
So I'd keep that well in mind as you go looking to get there on the cheap.
Fact is, I can guarantee you that the cheapest way to where you want to be is me. Because I get you there, on the first try, and then that's the end of it, and you put it to work and start making money.
Not to mention that you also then get free lifetime tech support. So if you do have any issues, you call me, not cast about on the Internet and get answers from people who may or may not have the slightest clue what they're talking about.
A couple other things: The poster that said you can't profile with Rasterlink is correct. You'll need some other RIP if Rasterlink is what you've got. Pauly is also right that I tend to prefer Onyx, but not always and not in all situations. I am an Onyx and Caldera dealer, so I could point you in the right direction if you also need a RIP.
Also note that you cannot make a backlit profile with an i1. For that you'll need a transmissive spectrophotometer. They're not cheap.
One thing I would quibble a bit with Pauly on is that I would beg to differ that the way to get the very best profiles is to invest a huge chunk of your time and money in software and hardware and self-teaching to learn to make two profiles yourself.
Fact is I profile large format printers for a living. Large format color management is all I do, and I've been doing it for 11 years. In that time I've seen, worked with and profiled just about every RIP, printer, ink, media, and process combination out there. There's no way you're ever going to duplicate all the knowledge gained from that kind of experience on your own while you tend to everything else that goes into running your business.
And myself, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to.
Pauly here is a really good guy who has worked for literally years fighting to get good color off of an Oce Arizona printing on glass with Onyx. He's been on just about every forum on the Internet searching for answers, and I'd wager has spent well into the tens of thousands of dollars on hardware and software alone, let alone his time and materials. Just having read his posts on other forums over the years, if I had to put a total value on his pursuit of color profiles, I'd put it at north of 50 grand.
So I'd keep that well in mind as you go looking to get there on the cheap.
Fact is, I can guarantee you that the cheapest way to where you want to be is me. Because I get you there, on the first try, and then that's the end of it, and you put it to work and start making money.
Not to mention that you also then get free lifetime tech support. So if you do have any issues, you call me, not cast about on the Internet and get answers from people who may or may not have the slightest clue what they're talking about.
A couple other things: The poster that said you can't profile with Rasterlink is correct. You'll need some other RIP if Rasterlink is what you've got. Pauly is also right that I tend to prefer Onyx, but not always and not in all situations. I am an Onyx and Caldera dealer, so I could point you in the right direction if you also need a RIP.
Also note that you cannot make a backlit profile with an i1. For that you'll need a transmissive spectrophotometer. They're not cheap.
One thing I would quibble a bit with Pauly on is that I would beg to differ that the way to get the very best profiles is to invest a huge chunk of your time and money in software and hardware and self-teaching to learn to make two profiles yourself.
Fact is I profile large format printers for a living. Large format color management is all I do, and I've been doing it for 11 years. In that time I've seen, worked with and profiled just about every RIP, printer, ink, media, and process combination out there. There's no way you're ever going to duplicate all the knowledge gained from that kind of experience on your own while you tend to everything else that goes into running your business.
And myself, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to.
Pauly
Printrade.com.au
I had someone make me profiles at the beginning. Honestly I would put him up there with Mike. He travels Au profiling printers ect (Big reputation in au).
But with out him coming and doing them, I wouldn't know what i know today.
But for me, we do print on a decent range of substrates. And we also do modifications to our glass prints i.e adhesion promoters can affect the print. Using white paint instead of ink affects the print in different ways. Because things change and improvements are made, it was better off me learning all of it + more So when a new media came in, i could just make a profile to what ever accuracy i needed for the job.
IMO Hire Mike, get where you need to be. continue printing. Then work out if it's viable to learn your self if you decide to print on other substrates. Viable meaning - Buy the right equipment. the right software. And as much time it takes you to learn.
But with out him coming and doing them, I wouldn't know what i know today.
But for me, we do print on a decent range of substrates. And we also do modifications to our glass prints i.e adhesion promoters can affect the print. Using white paint instead of ink affects the print in different ways. Because things change and improvements are made, it was better off me learning all of it + more So when a new media came in, i could just make a profile to what ever accuracy i needed for the job.
IMO Hire Mike, get where you need to be. continue printing. Then work out if it's viable to learn your self if you decide to print on other substrates. Viable meaning - Buy the right equipment. the right software. And as much time it takes you to learn.