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question about subscriptions

yetti320

New Member
If you own the data. A company owns the program. They want you to go to subscription. Is there a limit to how much they can charge for the subscription?
How much are you willing to pay? How often can they raise the subscription? You are tied to the program. There is no escape. Remember without the program the data is useless.
What options are available? Leave the program as is with no improvements and the data is safe or make the improvement and forfeit your data.
 

netsol

Active Member
you don't mention what program

YOUR DATA can always be exported in a "neutral (agnostic) format"

sign files can always be saved as pdf
data as csv.

everyone has a competing product "keeping them honest"
the market sets the price of a program. if you charge too much, someone will undercut
you.

if the problem is YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYONE you are on your own
 

yetti320

New Member
I could mention the the program has the extension fs. Yes, you can always save it twice once as a pdf as or any one of a dozen extensions. However, the original fs file is the only one that can be edited.
Yes you can recreate the file in another program. The question is if you have been doing signs with the extension fs for awhile and the option is available to update but you have to go subscription.
The data that can be edited with the fs extension is yours however the program is owned by someone else. Keeping them honest as you say is supplied by the market there is no end.
There is no cap on subscription rate increases. I don't mind paying I understand what is being said. FS a number of years ago shut down 8.0 and forced people to go to the next version 10 with no notice.
Again you own the data they own the program
 

netsol

Active Member
not sure, but can you export as an older .ai file?

or, is there an option to SAVE AS older flexi?
i think there is OLDER flexi available free
 

BigNate

New Member
...However, the original fs file is the only one that can be edited....
just curious, sorry, I don't use files with the fs extension... but why do you say you cannot edit the pdf? I have quite a few programs that will parse the pdf and edit...
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
Software as a service (SAAS) has become an unfortunate reality for this one-man show as I recently had a major computer crash that caused me to have to purchase subscriptions to several apps that were previously permanent licenses on my old Windows 7 Pro system. Fortunately, all my native files and my other data were safely recovered.

I now run four SAAS subscriptions, with three apps being "back office" products, and the other is for use in the shop. All said, I'll be spending close to $1,500 yearly for all four products. As a business owner, I've finally come to peaceful terms with SAAS. It's like any other expense (utilities, insurance, etc). But at the same time, SAAS is also an investment that pays back majorly huge dividends.

And for what extra it costs, I've found it best to stick with the top name brands, regardless. I sampled a lesser-known CAD drafting program last month, and after an hour of pure frustration I quickly became more than willing to pay top dollar for the familiar functionality of AutoCAD I'd been used to. What I spend on SAAS costs will quickly be surpassed by revenues.

As terribly old and cliche as it sounds, time really is money.

JB
 
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netsol

Active Member
i am also a small shop & the rising costs ARE a big problem.
it i VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THOSE LEGACY PROGRAMS BACKED UP.
you can use windows backup, veeam free, acronis & a usb external drive
I HATE CARBONITE,but a$10-$15/month fee would hve saved $1500/year
last week, i commented to someone who wanted to know what FREE CLOUD STORAGE TO USE
that you only appreciate the value of your files WHEN THEY ARE GONE..

OBVIOUSLY the same is true for your legacy programs

we all forget that hard drives are like light bulbs. they all eventually GO BAD & mostly without warning

THIS INCLUDES THE NEW SSD's (sometimes they are worse)
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
i am also a small shop & the rising costs ARE a big problem.
it i VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THOSE LEGACY PROGRAMS BACKED UP.

I still have all my legacy software on original disc. For me, it seems to be one of two problems:

1) The legacy software simply does not run on a new OS (Win 11)
or
2) The manufacturer no longer "supports" my "permanent" license which prevents it from operating on the new OS, or an old OS of an old computer. The software installs properly, and I can use it for 30 days. But the manufacturer will not allow me to "activate" MY PERMANENT LICENSE SOFTWARE for continued use. It seems there was a sunset deadline I wasn't aware of that affected their permanent license products...they basically killed them dead.

So...I guess the theme of this thread is this: If you have an elderly computer running an elderly OS with legacy software, do all you can to protect it. MY mistake came when I shut down my Win 7 system during an electrical storm. Even after a proper, uneventful shutdown, I was never able to get it to boot up afterwards. You just never know.


JB
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
SaaS is the bane of my working existence. Not something that I am willing to come to terms with (and I don't have to, not an easy road to that position, but well worth it for me). And they really aren't good for production type of machines, having an always connected computer to the WAN is no bueno at all.

Data ownership, depending on how things are done, typically there are certain "freedoms/ownerships" that people sign away, particularly if using any type of 3rd party "cloud" type of service (and given how entrenched these are getting in at the OS level, it will apply at the OS level as well, not just individual programs).

As to keep legacy programs around, mainly going to depend on what the activation (or lack thereof) is needed, but as far as older OSs go, I'm a firm believer in VMs. Now if the program uses GL for it's entire UI, that could be more of a tricky situation and require more resources compared to what most people think of with VMing. Now, this is moot if the program in question requires actually pinging an active server. If it has some kind of dongle, there may be hope for some extra time.

I would suggest for those that just have the optical discs of programs, that one creates ISO backups of the discs (and actually use disc authoring software, not archival/compression software, depending on length of file names, truncation could happen and that would render the ISO useless and names wouldn't match up during the installation process). Given that optical drives seem to be going the way of the dodo and ISOs are seen on most modern OSs as a virtual optical drive, it works just as well.

As to back ups, I prefer having my own, 1 onsite and 2 others offsite. Not as cheap, but there are certain sacrifices that one makes with 3rd party solutions and I have know at least one 3rd party solution be used as a vector for getting people infected (their data transfer software was used).

Now bare in mind, even though I am no fan of SaaS and will drop programs that adopt that approach, I do not have a problem with paying for software in general. There are just certain approaches to licensing that I will not accept and thus won't use the program. I tend to also use more manual tools and I stay away from more program specific tooling, thus going from one software to the next is easier and I try to save in more universal file formats as well, minimize how much is only in the proprietary format. I also now tend to switch to programs that have well documented open/robust plugin systems to were if something is missing for me, I can add in there or maybe get lucky and someone else had a need and made what they did available. But I have written some tooling from scratch as well. May not be as robust as what I was replacing, but it would definitely have what I needed it to have.

People should not be unwilling to move to different software. Programs/vendors do change in how they do things and if things don't match up anymore, should be willing to be able to move to another program. There will be some teething pain in doing so, but the willingness to attempt should still be there. But if people are going to expect a 1:1 seamless transition, that will never work out.
 

Signarama Jockey

New Member
You do own the data. It is 100% yours. They aren't contesting that.

They just own the decoder. They are renting it out to you.

For a minute I thought you were talking about Audible.
 

James Burke

Being a grandpa is more fun than working
I feel lucky, Do not have any subscriptions.
As frustrating as it is, we all know that holding out eventually comes with an expiration date. Software companies have no problem waiting on the resistant to eventually arrive at that conclusion.

Unless you have some rogue IT skills (or can hire the services of someone who does), be prepared to make the change.

JB
 

yetti320

New Member
ok perhaps i did not phrase the the question correctly. It has nothing to do with money, nothing at all. Flexi just released its new software complete. Looks great, nice features. You have to go on a subscription for 1 year. Again its nothing to do with money. The sign company owns the data it is your data you made it its yours. Flexi has the software to edit and create the FS files. I have a dongle which i have on FLEXI 19 no subscription. They do ping the dongle searching for my license once in awhile. If you get rid of the dongle and go with a subscription what controls from flexi increasing the subscription every year. Flexi controls the software. I have multiple locations for backups also. If flexis cloud service goes down can you still make open the data and create jobs.
 

weyandsign

New Member
What features made you want to switch from 19? It's literally the same program that it's been since Windows 98. You could switch to Corel or Designer, they both have no subscriptions.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
As frustrating as it is, we all know that holding out eventually comes with an expiration date. Software companies have no problem waiting on the resistant to eventually arrive at that conclusion.

Unless you have some rogue IT skills (or can hire the services of someone who does), be prepared to make the change.

JB
Life comes with an expiration date also. I use Affinity and still Illy and Photoshop CS6, My RIP i bought years ago. Have all the fonts I will ever use and draw whatever else I need. Will hold out to the end, they won't take me alive.
 

netsol

Active Member
I still have all my legacy software on original disc. For me, it seems to be one of two problems:

1) The legacy software simply does not run on a new OS (Win 11)
or
2) The manufacturer no longer "supports" my "permanent" license which prevents it from operating on the new OS, or an old OS of an old computer. The software installs properly, and I can use it for 30 days. But the manufacturer will not allow me to "activate" MY PERMANENT LICENSE SOFTWARE for continued use. It seems there was a sunset deadline I wasn't aware of that affected their permanent license products...they basically killed them dead.

So...I guess the theme of this thread is this: If you have an elderly computer running an elderly OS with legacy software, do all you can to protect it. MY mistake came when I shut down my Win 7 system during an electrical storm. Even after a proper, uneventful shutdown, I was never able to get it to boot up afterwards. You just never know.


JB
James, when we look closely it is a "permanent." license, more of a marketing ploy at the time

even with your serial #'s and product keys, it only reinstalls until they shut down the registration servers
 

netsol

Active Member
What features made you want to switch from 19? It's literally the same program that it's been since Windows 98. You could switch to Corel or Designer, they both have no subscriptions.
they only dragged me to flexi 19 kicking and screaming. i am sure tech support wondered why there were fingernails embedded in the carpet.

i was perfectly happy with flexicut 5.6

i know those of us "in the business" are supposed to always want to update to the latest, but, it often seems the programs get stupider every year
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
i know those of us "in the business" are supposed to always want to update to the latest, but, it often seems the programs get stupider every year
This is really just to get one on the SaaS model as that is supposedly a big selling factor, when it's quite the reverse. Updating (while I'm not totally against it) is inherently unstable and not all updates are for the better. I have known people to actually lose abilities that they once enjoyed via updating.

Quite a few of these programs are decades old (which prompted the need for this type of pricing schema as well). About the only way to actually handle things better would be to refactor and that just isn't going to happen (and there are reasons that I can see for it to not happen). Why even when there are updates that bring functionality that users want, they after appear like a "hack" and in most instances probably are, because one is dealing with tech debt over the span of decades.

I imagine, given what is being crammed into the browser as far as APIs go, eventually a lot of these programs will be able to be enjoyed via the "browser". Might as well be if they are subscription as it is.
 
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