Questions for making stickers.

[jdwilliams1]

Hello have been in the flatbed world for over a decade and recently purchased an Epson S80600L, S Series Summa and Laminator and Onyx software

We are turning our current product line that we do on other substrated into stickers for our customers. I am running into a few questions/issues.

1. We got a roll of laminate and vinyl with our printer and i am just curious to hear from anyone that is doing bulk stickers, what is the best vinyl and laminate to use together. We ave very little knowledge and we were worried that maybe the company we bought the equip for may have sent something that works but might be more expensive since they supply these as well.

2. I have been trying to cut circle stickers but our kiss cut seems to have trouble leaving a consistant reveal or border around the edge of the circle. Is this common, any thoughts on how to get this dialed in. Bear in mind we are not doing enough at this time to move rolls from one machine to the next. I am more less doing 4ft sheets of teasting, not sure if this causes an issue

3. I have had some decals made and sitting around and over time there is a gap revealing where the kiss cut was made. I had heard maybe this would happen if the wrong laminate is paired with the vinyl...althought now that I think about it, that was going to cause it to curl up, so having said that is it normal for the gap to increase at the kiss cut. We sell these wholesale and I feel that I have never noticed this in the past from other sticker makers.

Looking forward to hearing from some long time sticker and roll to roll printers.

Thanks
Jay

 

[ikarasu]

For #3 - cheap media can curl... As can too much ink saturation. How long did you wait from print to laminate? If you laminated right away that's one the the biggest causes of curl up / shrinking media... As you need to let the ink full dry. Try using the same combo, but let the material sit for 4-5 hours before laminating it, see if that helps.


My laminator came with the cheapest, shitiest Overlam... So if you're using the vendor supplied vinyl, it probably sucks.

We find the name brands work best for vinyl - ij35 for vinyl, 8508/8510, or 8048 if it's in your budget works best.

Avery's Callander option works and cuts great for us too, oracals high end stuff is good, but their cheap stuff not so much.

Tbh, the vinyl matters more than Overlam when it comes to cutting and having smooth edges / no curl up. The cheaper brands tend to use thin backing paper... I usually use 3m vinyl with Avery/oracals Overlam.


The summa should cut pretty close. If it's a very thin border, it might be noticeable if it's off.... I know graphtecs you can change the scan settings and make it more accurate, I'm sure summa has a way as well...


If all these were just bought, youre probably better off talking to the shop that sold it to you, as they'd send a tech to fix whatever issues, as well as provide training... At least they should.

 

[jdwilliams1]

For #3 - cheap media can curl... As can too much ink saturation. How long did you wait from print to laminate? If you laminated right away that's one the the biggest causes of curl up / shrinking media... As you need to let the ink full dry. Try using the same combo, but let the material sit for 4-5 hours before laminating it, see if that helps.


My laminator came with the cheapest, shitiest Overlam... So if you're using the vendor supplied vinyl, it probably sucks.

We find the name brands work best for vinyl - ij35 for vinyl, 8508/8510, or 8048 if it's in your budget works best.

Avery's Callander option works and cuts great for us too, oracals high end stuff is good, but their cheap stuff not so much.

Tbh, the vinyl matters more than Overlam when it comes to cutting and having smooth edges / no curl up. The cheaper brands tend to use thin backing paper... I usually use 3m vinyl with Avery/oracals Overlam.


The summa should cut pretty close. If it's a very thin border, it might be noticeable if it's off.... I know graphtecs you can change the scan settings and make it more accurate, I'm sure summa has a way as well...


If all these were just bought, youre probably better off talking to the shop that sold it to you, as they'd send a tech to fix whatever issues, as well as provide training... At least they should.

Thanks Ikarusa,

I will definately reach out to the company that sold us everything but I appreciate your help and input. To me the biggest issue I am dealing with is the kiss cut being off from the graphic even though the lines are in the right place in the cut file in relation to the graphic so definately going to need to figure something out

 

[FireSprint.com]

At FireSprint we wholesale stickers to the trade. We do millions of them. www.firesprint.com Go set up an account and double or triple our pricing to your customers, even if you produce it in house. You know that if you get in a bind you can just sub it out. Free 2 day shipping to Indiana.

That said, you’ll want to connect a good sign supply vendor. There are many. For vinyl, you’ll want a polymeric calendared media for the best price to performance ratio with stickers. To help them stay flat, look for a polymeric vinyl that comes on a 90 pound liner. This is a heavier paper backing.

You can expect to pay between $150 and $350 per roll for this. Once you find a vinyl that checks all the boxes for you, buy the matching over laminate. That’s all you need to know, just ask your supplier for the matching lam. It will likely come in different sheens which will provide a different gloss level. Gloss level is mostly just for the look and has little to do with durability.

As for the operation of your equipment, I’ll have to bow out there. Certainly there are others here that know how to use that equipment better than I.

Good luck!!

 

[somcalmetim]

The roll of material that typically comes with a new printer is only good for the tech to print tests while setting up the machine...it is super cheap, our tech even told us not to bother using it because it was so bad...I only kept it for them to use if they come back for service, it shrinks real bad and will fall off...

3M 40c or 180 c is what we use with 8508 or 8518 for lam

Uneven circle borders is either a bad print/cut adjustment or not inserted back in square enough for it to register properly after lam

 

[hybriddesign]

Like others said the shrinking of your edges is due to lower quality vinyl or lam. We use general formulations 203 line and it’s great. We pair it with either the GF matching lam or we prefer oracal 210g over the GF if it’s available as the oracal gloss is glossier.

For something a little nicer 3m ij40 with matching cast lam.

We only cut on a flatbed. Have never managed to dial in cutting on our regular cutter but haven’t tried that hard.

 

[jharler]

I prefer Substance vinyl for my stickers. As far as curling, as mentioned above, make sure you're letting the ink out-gas and also check the tension on your laminator. If the laminate is being tensioned more than the vinyl, you may have curling when the pressure is released once the sticker is cut. I also experience this in some thicker vinyl when printing ink to the edge of the cut as well as when using heat to apply the laminate. It is common to have some separation of the vinyl when you kiss cut, although it shouldn't be extreme.

 

[White Haus]

Welcome to the wonderful world of roll to roll printing! I remember getting our first roll printer and not having any idea what to use. We started off with Oracal calendered vinyls and laminates and quickly learned how lousy they are when it comes to shrinking and curling. 10+ years later and I'd like to think we've learned a thing or two.

Our go-to combo for good all-around decals is General Formulations 201 HTAP and 3M 8418. (High tack vinyl w/ cast laminate = not super cheap, but super good)

For vehicle graphics we use 3M IJ180cv3 + 3M 8418.

Regarding your cutting accuracy - are you using bleeds? Just have to ask, this might explain why your cuts are off if you're not incorporating them into your files.
4' long jobs on a brand new Summa S series should be no problem at all.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Is the curling on your stickers on all aspects of the decal or just the "top and the bottom". If it is just the top and bottom, then the curl is a result of your laminator applying too much tension to the laminating film before being applied. For small decals, you definitely want to use a 90# lay-flat liner. The cheaper liners, even if they are 'moisturized', won't lay flat after you cut them all out.

I've got some really good and inexpensive monomeric and polymeric adhesive films and laminates in stock in Cleveland.....this includes the new 6mil air-egress product we just launched which is a great solution for non-laminated decals and window graphics. The material doesn't have any stretch and the air-egress only helps for a perfect application. If you DM me I can send you spec sheets and pricing. We deal with tons of label and decal producers (especially those running on Colorados)

 

[jdwilliams1]

Thank you everyone for your responses, I really appreciate you taking the time to help out this novice roll to roll guy.

 

[jdwilliams1]

Welcome to the wonderful world of roll to roll printing! I remember getting our first roll printer and not having any idea what to use. We started off with Oracal calendered vinyls and laminates and quickly learned how lousy they are when it comes to shrinking and curling. 10+ years later and I'd like to think we've learned a thing or two.

Our go-to combo for good all-around decals is General Formulations 201 HTAP and 3M 8418. (High tack vinyl w/ cast laminate = not super cheap, but super good)

For vehicle graphics we use 3M IJ180cv3 + 3M 8418.

Regarding your cutting accuracy - are you using bleeds? Just have to ask, this might explain why your cuts are off if you're not incorporating them into your files.
4' long jobs on a brand new Summa S series should be no problem at all.

Hello White Haus, thanks for getting back to us. Yes we are using feeds and I have cut some circles a month or so ago that were perfect and then we got busy and could not devote time to the printer and cutter and now I am back training and practicing and the circle cuts are not aligned to the art. Not sure why I guess I will look to get some techinical support.

 

[jdwilliams1]

Also I should verify I am not really dealing with curling just after stickers sit for a but the kiss cut begins to reveal a very slight gap.

 

[ikarasu]

Upload some photos of the issues you're having,.it's the best way for us to see what's going on and point it out

 

[White Haus]

Also I should verify I am not really dealing with curling just after stickers sit for a but the kiss cut begins to reveal a very slight gap.

This is more common with calendared materials, or with oversaturated prints. Waiting a full 24hrs before laminating and not having too much tension on the laminator can help avoid this, along with using quality materials.

 

[jdwilliams1]

Upload some photos of the issues you're having,.it's the best way for us to see what's going on and point it out

So I have been more testing and it appears the kiss cut is dead on towards the edge pinch rollers of the summa but the ones in the middle get off and then back towards the other edge they get dialed back in some.

I have done the OPOS calibration several times

 

[jharler]

I had a similar problem, where cuts in the middle of larger sheets were off. Turns out my printer was the culprit.

 

[jdwilliams1]

I had a similar problem, where cuts in the middle of larger sheets were off. Turns out my printer was the culprit.

Jharler, that is interesting. Were you able to solve the issue with an adjustment?

 

[jharler]

No, they replaced my printer.

 

[Mr.Signboy]

Thanks Ikarusa,

I will definately reach out to the company that sold us everything but I appreciate your help and input. To me the biggest issue I am dealing with is the kiss cut being off from the graphic even though the lines are in the right place in the cut file in relation to the graphic so definately going to need to figure something out

It sounds like you need to do some calibration on your cutter. Summa has really great YouTube videos on how to do all of that and tutorials in general. If you get everything calibrated and it still doesn’t work right have your distributor send a tech out. They should’ve done it for you when it was installed but it would be good for you to learn these things early so you don’t need to rely on a service tech. Sounds like the guys you bought this from didn’t do a great job getting you dialed I. When you bought it.