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RANT: Hey there "Signs of the Times" magazine (ST Publications) WTH???

SignosaurusRex

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
ST Publications owns the rights to countless books related to the trade and art of sign painting, showcard writing, layout & design, etc., yet they no longer publish them. WTH?
These books are commanding insane amounts of money ...if and when they can be found offered for sale on ebay, other sites and old book stores. Seems pretty damned counter productive and makes no sense to me at all. These books are still invaluable to anyone in the sign related trades and were not meant to be buried in a vault! The likes of E.C. Mathews, Frank Atkinson, H.C. Martin, CHas. J. & L.S. Strong, Edward Duvall and countless others would be furious at ST and appalled! :frustrated:
 
Z SIGNS

Z SIGNS

New Member
I think it has to do with demand.
Today's generation of sign make has no interest in Matthews or any of the other you mentioned.

Back in the early 80's an old retiring sign painter gave me his library of old sign books.
All original Atkinson,Matthews,Strong and much more.
Lot of good information in these books that still applies.
I love this collection and refer to it often.
 
SignosaurusRex

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
Z SIGNS said:
I think it has to do with demand.
Today's generation of sign make has no interest in Matthews or any of the other you mentioned.

Back in the early 80's an old retiring sign painter gave me his library of old sign books.
All original Atkinson,Matthews,Strong and much more.
Lot of good information in these books that still applies.
I love this collection and refer to it often.
Click to expand...

Not true. If it were, the ridiculously high prices that these books are commanding would not be where they are. These books are extremely tough to get anymore unless one is willing to spend hundreds of dollars in many cases. There is currently a revival going on to revive the old school art of "Sign Writing" and as mentioned, these books still apply to many aspects of the "Sign" trade regardless of it's current state. Most of those leading the revival are young and hungry for what ever knowledge they can get hold of. Books seem to be the only option available anymore for most.

You are one of the lucky ones. I too was given many of my books. The rest, I have hunted for and fought many a bidding war or scoured book stores from one coast to another to obtain. Yes, they are still invaluable to the serious of the trade.

My guess is that ST is waiting for the prices to get higher and then they will release new printings at nearly insane prices, or sell pay-per-view access / cloud based access subscriptions.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I tried looking for Sign of the Times circulation... kinda
thinking it's hard enough selling to sign people, let alone
the new artist learning the trade.
I have never seen an ST Media book at a book store, so
purchasing these books were not really available to
the general public. The ones I did buy looked like they
were printed years ago... thinking it took a while for them
to sell the stock they had. They were at the last ISA or SEGD show
I went to (2000?)and they were selling many of their old
sign writing books at a discount price. I bought a few.
I just went to Alibis.com, did a search and holy cow
You are right!!!!!
Even 5 years ago some of these books were available.

I think most likely is...

It's not worth the cost of printing the books for
a few hundred people and then storing unsold books
in an office space for trickle-in orders. The cost of
printing a small amount of books may not be
profitable either... I'm thinking they are waiting till
the demand would make it profitable, or they
are done printing those books.

Books aren't that profitable as it is. Usually the
people that write them use it as an opportunity
for self-promotion... I have a huge collection of
original and reprint sign writer books. I also collect
newer sign design books.

You have to jump on them when you have the
chance... I've lost out on a few books and had
to pay premium prices. I have some really rare
books I bought directly from the author or
Borders/Barnes and Noble/Amazon. There was
a book I used to give to designer friends, I just
looked, in new condition, the book is worth over
600 bucks... I'm gonna have to steal back all of 'em!
My favorite design book is worth 500 bucks. Both
these books, as great as they are, and have a wider
appeal, were very expensive to print. It's doubtful
they would ever be reprinted.

I would email them... if they reprint, get them when
you can! Can't see them jacking up the price... the
prices of the collectibles will go down.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Rick said:
The cost of printing a small amount of books may not be
profitable either...
Click to expand...


I believe that is the biggest reason right there, as far as, why costs of very niche books (even when new) can be astronomical at times.

Embroidery digitizing books for the trade go for close to $200 new. Now you go to any craft section and books for the hobbyist go for $30-$40, still quite high given page count, but far more palatable for the larger audience that a hobbyist/crafter would be in versus someone fully in the trade. However, vastly different value of knowledge present in them as well. Even by some of the same people that used to just target the commercial market for their knowledge.

Every 7 yrs (or so) the National Research Council releases a book called the Nutrient Requirements of Horses (I was formerly educated as an Equine Nutritionist) and that goes for just about the same price as a digitizing book for people in that field. Even new and it's not easy to get a copy either. Certainly not at your local bookstore, have a far better chance of getting that online.

I think once the baby boomer generation is gone, it'll be a lot harder for books, as a physical medium, to remain popular. But that's me speculating. I know I prefer digital versions to physical copies and when I grew up, you still had physical copies only, didn't have the ability to take everything on an iPad (which I prefer now).

I would suspect that even getting a digital version of these niche books might also be hard as well. It just depends on the c/b of converting those old books to digital versions is worth it given the amount of people that would buy (or pay to view) them. Or some of the authors don't want digital versions in order to discourage the ease of theft in re-distributing them once one person bought a digital copy.
 
Billct2

Billct2

Active Member
I thought the big thing in books now was "Print on Demand" and Ebooks, both eliminate the need to print and store thousands of books.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Unlike most people in life, a book is always where you last left it. It will always be your friend. They are a guide to how things should be, in work and in life.

Books start out with a title and introduction which kinda wets your appetite. Kinda like saying.... Pick me.... Pick me....... It contain the body of what is written as far as what it's about, how to go about things, how to perform and execute things. You get a theme going. The setting is set and you're off to learn. They give the plot of what's going on and why you're doing what you're doing. They will give all the characters a valued part in the book for you to learn from them and use their standards for your own interpretation.

Once you finished the book two or three times, you can then summarize what has taken place and take that which you want for your very own and make it yours. Most of all.... did you learn anything ??

This is the real way to learn and move forward.

However, most people today only want the 'Cliff Notes' and don't wanna learn by hands on or reading about their trade. They want t o take the shortest short cut they can find and not worry about the fundamentals or basics of anything. These are the hacks. They want the answer in 60 seconds or less.

I have a bunch of books, but quite honestly, I can't remember the last time I read any of them. I enjoy, having a small library, but it's nothing compared to what some people have, but I do cherish it.

Whether it's ST pulling some kinda prank or money making move, is hard to say, its just a shame that so many young impressionable minds won't have a chance to expand on the same things were were allowed to use. I guess it's called progress, huh ??​
 
pjfmeister

pjfmeister

New Member
Here is one of my Grandpa's old copies...dates back to 1938. Cool little old book with my Grandpa's hand written notes - I wish it was better preserved.
 

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SignosaurusRex

SignosaurusRex

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