Rant: Idiot employees who convert all text into outlines

[TimToad]

I think it's more an annoyance than a problem.

Doesn't take that long to find a font in a layout that was created on your system.

I guess you missed the part about text intensive signs and the need to retype everything.

 

[Baz]

I still consider it more an annoyance than a problem.
It's not like you have to re-type a job everyday.
Only when you have to edit old files.

I understand your rant ... But it's not a problem in my mind.

 

[Bobby H]

A long time ago I used to keep all the type editable in my designs. I stopped doing that after several years on the job. For most sign designs I convert the text to outlines once the design is finalized. The project's spec sheet will contain a listing of which specific fonts were used. That's it.

The only time I'm going to keep the text editable if there is a lot of it. But even then, I'm going to have two versions of that finished file, one with the editable text and the other with it converted. Or maybe I'll keep a copy of all that text in a Notepad document.

There's all kinds of problems involved with keeping lettering as editable text objects.

Obviously you need the fonts that were used in the design installed on your computer. Not just that, but I mean the very same font files that were used. There's a lot of different flavors of the same typeface floating around and they don't all have the same geometry and metrics. Times New Roman on a new Windows 10 machine is not the same as Times New Roman on an old Windows XP box.

Lots of font files are not cross platform compatible. OpenType, when done right, is the only format that truly works reliably. TrueType works most of the time, but the ones from a Mac often won't work on a PC.

Some font formats, like Type 1 Multiple Master, are now dead. Even if you have a copy of FontLab Studio there's no guarantee you'll be able to open and save a "single master instance" version of that font that will work properly as a substitute in old artwork that used Type 1 MM fonts. Back in the 1990's our shop used CASmate and a bunch of those proprietary .SCF fonts. A lot of those did not get ported over to TTF format when Scanvec and Amiable Technologies merged. I have some old .SCV files from the 1990's that are mostly broken because of that. The files will open in Flexi, but they'll be screwed up with font substitution errors.

And then there's the freaking design programs themselves. Current versions of CorelDRAW, Illustrator and Flexi DO NOT handle type the way they did several versions ago. Text elements will flow differently. Effects like text on path can yield some very unpredictable, very unreliable results.

Lately we have a new problem with developers removing compatibility with old software. My personal copy of CorelDRAW X8 won't open CorelDRAW 3 files. Adobe killed Freehand after the Macromedia acquisition and then removed Freehand import capability in Illustrator recently.

 

[myront]

I don't get mad often but when I see this kind of thing happening...I GET MAD. We rarely send out to third party but if I do I have enough sense to leave the orig alone and create another just for them with all fonts converted. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT trust "embed fonts" option

 

[2B]

I save my .cdr files as editable and save my production files as .pdf with fonts converted to curves.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT trust "embed fonts" option

This and if there is some odd case where you still have to convert the text there are enough vendors who will do it for VERY cheap and will be ready when you get back into the office the next morning.

 

[Baz]

Oh god when Illustrator imports the text format from an old version and each letter is an individual text line

For my workflow. I use Versaworks and it will only import .eps format for a vector file. I prefer (or am used to) working files as .ai.
I end up saving two formats. Working .ai and final output as an .eps file.

Again though ... Converting old files usually means re editing the text no matter what.
It's all part of the job.

 

[Bobby H]

Unless there is a a lot of text involved it's not a big deal to change lettering that has already been converted to outlines.

A lot of my projects hop from CorelDRAW to Illustrator and Photoshop. I usually get more reliable results saving an .AI file from CorelDRAW with the text already converted to outlines. Illustrator will often bring up a font missing dialog box, even if the freaking font is actually installed on the machine. And then it's a pain making Illustrator get the right font weights applied in that dialog box. Adobe needs to give that thing an overhaul. Adobe's own frustrating limitations with sizing, placing and aligning type objects gives all the more reason to just convert the type to outlines.

 

[T_K]

I was originally taught to save production files as all outlines, no fonts left. Through my own headaches, I learned to save 2 files - [filename]_EDIT and then [filename]_PRINT.
It's saved me tons of time over the years once I figured that one out.

 

[BALLPARK]

Project Folders

Source
Proof
Print

Good way to avoid the issue.

 

[Desert_Signs]

We save 2 of every file.

in the job folder, call it job 29174, there is a 'main' file area. This area contains the editable file, all the images used, etc. Then there is a subfolder called 'proof' which contains a rasterized .jpg of the artwork on a proof sheet to send to the customer. When the job is ready to print, it is saved in another subfolder called output with all of the text outlined, etc.

It hasn't failed me in 5 years....

 

[player]

Some font formats, like Type 1 Multiple Master, are now dead. Even if you have a copy of FontLab Studio there's no guarantee you'll be able to open and save a "single master instance" version of that font that will work properly as a substitute in old artwork that used Type 1 MM fonts. Back in the 1990's our shop used CASmate and a bunch of those proprietary .SCF fonts. A lot of those did not get ported over to TTF format when Scanvec and Amiable Technologies merged. I have some old .SCV files from the 1990's that are mostly broken because of that. The files will open in Flexi, but they'll be screwed up with font substitution errors.

You can still use the SCF fonts in Flexi. There is a font folder you copy them into and they show up.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I only use brush script or papyrus in all my designs to avoid this issue all together.

 

[T_K]

We just duplicate the layers within the file and group them together then convert that group to outlines and lock and hide the originals. That way we never lose the original text nor do we have to keep 2 files.

I like this method because it reduces the number of files on the computer. My main concern would be that someone gets in a rush, outlines the editable layer, then saves & closes it.
Obviously attention to detail is necessary. Just like you can forget to save the production file FIRST, and save over the editable file, even if you have separate working and production files.

Either way, if people aren't paying attention, they can ruin whatever system you have in place.

 

[Marlene]

If I have to search through all the old files for the editable file that might have gotten saved, then search for the fonts, load the fonts onto my computer and retype an entire sign with tons of copy, instead of just doing a little editing of the existing text, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

Especially, if I was paying someone between $15-20 per hour plus perks to know what any designer or signmaker worth their salt should know.

sound like the problem is you as the employer. if this is such a huge problem for you, have you in your employee expectations included just what the hell you epxect from them? if you want a file for every job saved that can be edited then say so. when I convert mine it is because I am worth "my salt" and have done so as I know enough to flip a quotation mark or because I wnat to node edit a bad connection or remove the lead in connections on a script font. there are reasons that we who do know what they are doing convert that those who don't know $hit have no clue as to the reason why.

 

[TimToad]

sound like the problem is you as the employer. if this is such a huge problem for you, have you in your employee expectations included just what the hell you epxect from them? if you want a file for every job saved that can be edited then say so. when I convert mine it is because I am worth "my salt" and have done so as I know enough to flip a quotation mark or because I wnat to node edit a bad connection or remove the lead in connections on a script font. there are reasons that we who do know what they are doing convert that those who don't know $hit have no clue as to the reason why.

These are old files done by either the former owner or previous employees, all created BEFORE I purchased the business.

Is it a huge problem? No, but yesterday it was and when it happens it reminds of how a simple text edit on an older, INHERITED file can now become a counterproductive drain on MY time.

Thank you for joining the ranks with Gino to turn a simple rant and venting session into a personal attack.

THANK YOU to all who contributed actual solutions and methods for preventing this in the first place.

 

[Gino]

These are old files done by either the former owner or previous employees, all created BEFORE I purchased the business.

Is it a huge problem? No, but yesterday it was and when it happens it reminds of how a simple text edit on an older, INHERITED file can now become a counterproductive drain on MY time.

Thank you for joining the ranks with Gino to turn a simple rant and venting session into a personal attack.

THANK YOU to all who contributed actual solutions and methods for preventing this in the first place.

You know what toadster........ you're just a whiner and habitual complainer. You started this thread about complaining of people you didn't know or work with, but still put them down. Your claim of hard drive space is so dumb. Back when I started with computers, the hard drive was 40 megs, yes 40 MEGS. There were also floppy to floppy, so perhaps when these idiots you b!cth about were doing this, they were instructed to do it this way, especially since each and every file is created wrong..... in your opinion.
No where did you ask for advice or help, you just attacked people you didn't know. I stayed in there, right along with you and told you my take on an idiotic behavior. You got a case of the a$$, disliked my truthful observation and then in your last post, try to make yourself into something, you aren't by insulting me and another member........ who also was criticizing your business ethics. It's a shame, you think so little of your fellow man..... and workers, and so highly of yourself, that you hafta go around poking fun at them, every chance you get.

Like I said, seems like you're always p!ssed about something from buying some a$$holes business. You just live so close to it, you can't see it.

My PM box is full, so don't try sending me any of those flames. Have a happy and safe 4th yourself and don't blow yourself up.

 

[player]

I remember a computer guy trying to sell me a 100meg drive for $1,800. It would be the last drive and storage I would ever need...

 

[GAC05]

I remember a computer guy trying to sell me a 100meg drive for $1,800. It would be the last drive and storage I would ever need...

Did you buy it? Seems like a deal.......



wayne k
guam usa

 

[OldPaint]

hahahahahaha i remember thinking i got a deal when i bought 4 megs a rams for $100)))) gave me a total of 8.....i was big timin it))))) or the 4" HAND SCANNER.....for $200))))

 

[player]

I put a pile of $50/meg ram in a PC... I think 128 megs in a dual processor Pentium Pro.