Rapid Tac

[bannertime]

Only reason to lay wet is if you're bored and laying a solid panel of something without a premask.

 

[Chasez]

Only reason to lay wet is if you're bored and laying a solid panel of something without a premask.

So if you had a 48" x 48" band with a knockout (clear) logo (to keep things consistent say 8 letters long @ 3"h with a 3"x5" diamond in front of the text) that is premasked, centered in the band of a vinyl or etch or whatever you would want to use; you would install it dry? How long would that take you to get it installed without being full of bubbles... start to finish (including height marks, leveling, washing the glass, installing, removing premask, clean up)? I'm very curious now as I know how long it takes me. I would like to see you guys to prove me wrong that wet install is slower than dry install...

Chaz

 

[Johnny Best]

Your my hero Chaz, so what is the right premask to use so I do not make that mistake again.

 

[bannertime]

I'm going to stop you right there. I'd never lay a 4x4 piece of etchmark with cut outs in it. For one, my customers wouldn't want to pay for it. Second, we'd setup that artwork so that there was a break in there somewhere. Where it could be laid as two non-overlapping panels.

An unnecessary wet install will always take longer than a dry install. It has extra steps and dry time. There is no way around that. For the one instance of "a solid panel with no premask" the wet could be faster, simply because it's just slapped up. Even then, with air-egress vinyl, I've laid some vehicle graphics without a mask. Took maybe 2 minutes including clean and measure. A premasked wet install will always take longer. You also run the risk of getting the paper wet. No thanks.

You can lay whatever you want, however you want. However, we are actually agreeing on the same thing here, but that is literally the only instance were a wet install may be faster than dry. Every other time, dry wins. I could possibly knock out an 18x24 before you've lined up your wet graphic.

 

[Chasez]

Your my hero Chaz, so what is the right premask to use so I do not make that mistake again.

YAY time to get out my CAPE!!! R tape medium tack is what we use.

But for curiosities sake, how long would it take you to install the above mentioned piece?

Chaz

 

[Chasez]

I'm going to stop you right there. I'd never lay a 4x4 piece of etchmark with cut outs in it. For one, my customers wouldn't want to pay for it. Second, we'd setup that artwork so that there was a break in there somewhere. Where it could be laid as two non-overlapping panels..

I guess that's what separates amateurs from professionals. We install panels like this all the time (even 5' high panels with knockouts), easiest thing we do. Your customers must be unbelievably cheap We sell tons of it because it's cheap cheap cheap and people love it.

Now to stop something that is going to get out of hand here, I'm not saying doing a dry install is wrong in any way shape or form, just I believe that a wet install is much quicker. We will leave it at that as everyone has their own opinions and should get back on the topic of the rapid tac.

Chaz

 

[MikePro]

I have a 5gallon jug of RapicTac, cheaper/quantity, but rarely use it since Dawn+Water is just fine. And yes, I can install a 4x8 sheet of translucent vinyl dry, but I would prefer not to risk ruining the material when I want to pick up the pace.

 

[ams]

We install wet 95% of the time using about a tablespoon of dish soap in a 3g jug of water. Only use rapid tac on certain installations (ie. substrate dependant etc.). For most things there is no need to install dry unless its a little piece of signage or some perf. (at least on glass). Everything on glass that we do is wet and install it 20x faster than anyone could ever do it dry...

Chaz

You wet apply all of your materials? Major failure there. Many vinyls cannot be used with wet apply, I bet you wet apply reflective too.

 

[Chasez]

You wet apply all of your materials? Major failure there. Many vinyls cannot be used with wet apply, I bet you wet apply reflective too.

Again the difference between an amateur and a professional... if you check spec sheets you will see if they are a solvent based adhesive or a water based adhesive... if solvent based soapy water app won't harm it at all... We don't use reflective vinyl so that doesn't mean anything for me. As far as stock vinyl colours like 3M 220 series (or gerber 220 series which is pretty much the exact same) wet or dry app is fine and won't harm it. Really the only vinyls you can't wet app are air release and water based adhesive vinyls. Granted there are some materials that offer a wet app version and a dry app version (macal frosted/dusted) in which we buy the wet app. It's a bit more expensive but labor wise we are half the cost.

Chaz

 

[ams]

Again the difference between an amateur and a professional... if you check spec sheets you will see if they are a solvent based adhesive or a water based adhesive... if solvent based soapy water app won't harm it at all... We don't use reflective vinyl so that doesn't mean anything for me. As far as stock vinyl colours like 3M 220 series (or gerber 220 series which is pretty much the exact same) wet or dry app is fine and won't harm it. Really the only vinyls you can't wet app are air release and water based adhesive vinyls. Granted there are some materials that offer a wet app version and a dry app version (macal frosted/dusted) in which we buy the wet app. It's a bit more expensive but labor wise we are half the cost.

Chaz

A person is considered an amateur when they wet apply. You know you can't wet apply RA vinyl as well right?

 

[Chasez]

A person is considered an amateur when they wet apply. You know you can't wet apply RA vinyl as well right?

HA! how is that? The fact that I could hang twice as much with a wet install vs dry means I'm an amateur? I don't think so, it means that I want to work as hard and want to make money. What does your term RA vinyl stand for since everyone seems to have their own terminology these days?

Chaz

 

[brycesteiner]

I guess that's what separates amateurs from professionals. We install panels like this all the time (even 5' high panels with knockouts), easiest thing we do. Your customers must be unbelievably cheap We sell tons of it because it's cheap cheap cheap and people love it.

Now to stop something that is going to get out of hand here, I'm not saying doing a dry install is wrong in any way shape or form, just I believe that a wet install is much quicker. We will leave it at that as everyone has their own opinions and should get back on the topic of the rapid tac.

Chaz

Hi Chaz,
Do you have a video? I would love to see how you do it wet. My success has pretty much been with dry.
thanks!

 

[Johnny Best]

I am starting to use CHA vinyl, goes done smooth without bubbles, can do a 4'x4' etch vinyl with 8 letters 3" tall cutout with transfer paper in record time installing dry, to separate us from the amateurs.
The CHA stands for ChazHotAir release vinyl.

 

[Split76]

Yes. Air release.
If I do get a bubble I tell the customer they are free.

I tell i'm gonna charge more, because it's 3D

 

[ikarasu]

We only ever wet apply mactac, or clear vinyl thats going on a window. Everything else has always been dry.

The guy I work with (Who taught me how to vinyl) Sprays A LOT of windex for his wet apps. The 3M course I went to, and everyone I've ever spoken to says that's a huge No-no, that windex has a property that eats the glue. I've explained this, and spoke about it every single time I'm on an install with him and he uses it. He always points to the doors on our front office which have about 4 FT of vinyl, and asks me if I see any bubbles or peeling... Says it's been there for 5-6 years, and it hasn't affected anything... I just shrug it off. When I do it, I usually use dish soap + water... seems to work just as good.

Anyways... How does rapidtac compare? I've seen videos of people using it in freezing temps, and it made the vinyl apply perfectly (In temps where I'm sure the vinyl wouldn't stick with nothing under it). It's cheap enough... $45 a gallon here... But I imagine a gallon would last us years since we don't do many wet installs. Going to pick some up on Monday and give it a try! Maybe if I hand the old guy a bottle of it, he'll stop giving everything a Windex bath...

 

[player]

Insecure people call others amateurs. Wet or dry.

 

[fine point]

"Bubble Free" may mean Air Release? Or Channels

to me that means using the correct application method and squeegee. for just about every application, I do it dry and only use wet when I'm putting down something with a solid background, knocked out copy and is huge

MacTac makes bubble free films. It's called B-Free (duh). Though it's not as easy as advertised to be, it did go sort of bubble free on a glass.

 

[ikarasu]

MacTac makes bubble free films. It's called B-Free (duh). Though it's not as easy as advertised to be, it did go sort of bubble free on a glass.

Mactac b free says it's not good for cut applications, just printed. We ordered a sample roll just to test it though. Have arrived yet! Have you tried cutting it?