Rate my very first sign

[Boudica]

Whoa! Another newbie might have been scared off after only one thread, and not by Gino this time.

He didn't seem scared to me.

 

[gnubler]

Not scared, more like disgusted or pissed. If he can withstand half the abuse I've endured from the gang here, chances are he can make it as a signmaker.

 

[Mr.Ry]

As Boudica guessed: scared off? Not bloody likely. More like "triggered to a state of de-evolution" would be more fitting. Sorry to the rest of you for having to seen that from me, but not sorry for having clapped back.

I certainly intend to stick around for a while, everyone else has been pretty awesome! gnubler's first comment was critical too, as were others, but it inspired me to want to try harder. Yours and others' were unsugar-coated opinions, his was inflammatory to feed his own inflated ego. I can take criticism, but to say my design is irredeemable is just trolling. Doesn't care about my "precious feelings?" MF'er, did I give any type of whining response to anyone else's criticisms to give the impression I'm some snowflake and deserve such a remark? I don't think so, so he literally threw that comment out there *by default* and therefore by default, he's an asshole not worthy of my respect.

 

[Gino]

You will find in business as well as life, no one gives a rat's a$$ about your feelings or anybody else's. It's a dog eat dog world, especially in business and whether or not someone sugarcoats things really doesn't matter. Look for the message and not how it was presented sometimes helps. bob is a big help to most people and knows what he's talking about. I like his style. I, myself..... generally give a person both barrels on threads like this, but you came here looking for help and presented yourself as someone who wants to learn and willing to learn, so in my case, I hold back. It's the people who come here and don't wanna hear anything but great remarks and pats on the back, that I find disturbing. I'd suggest, take the bad with the good and don't slam the people who could very well help you.

 

[Boudica]

Don't pay any attention to Bob if you can't glean something useful from the words. Crass as they are, every once in a while after the sting goes away, he has some good input. Other times he's just wrong, or just a jerk. Or both.

You can choose to ignore members if you really don't like their contributions, then you won't even see them. just click on their profile and check the "ignore" button.

 

[signheremd]

Since you want to learn:

First thing I see is a sign laid out like a business card with very little hierarchy. All the stuff in the teal section is the same height. When making a sign it must be set up to convey at a glance - too much info and that will not be successful. So you must have in mind what you want the viewer to see and what they will need - usually a phone number is more important than a wen address.

Second thing is the teal section has a lot of bubbles and and tunnels (almost wrinkles). This is likely because of squeegee technique - 3M calls for an advancement of 1/3 of the width of the squeegee per stroke. In reality 1/2 is plenty fine, but if you shoot for 1/3 you are more likely to lay the vinyl better and end up at a 1/2 anyway. The unlaid portion should be held such that it curves gently just ahead of touching the substrate and so that the squeegee applies it to the substrate - do not let it touch before the squeegee presses it down (wet application need not have this caution). Pay attention to how the vinyl feels in your hands as you lay it. After a bit of experience, you can ignore everything else and rely on the feel.

Lastly, remember that when a tunnel appears that can lead to wrinkles, and that what you are really doing is moving the air out from under it. The air needs somewhere to go! Tunnels can often be worked out by following them, but never by going across them as that causes adhesive to touch adhesive (once that happens you are done).

You asked, so we all responded. Keep in mind, the harsher comments likely were only given because you asked for comments. I think if you ignore the negative aspect of those you will see that even those contain advice from an experienced point of view.

 

[Mr.Ry]

I'm totally on-board with people not giving a damn about feelings, that's a given to me. Honesty and unsugar-coated feedback is my preference and my own personal style. I just took someone barging in here and opening with "Don't give a damn about your precious feelings" as an appropriate response to someone who's being a whiny b**** about the feedback they are getting, which I'm not, and I obviously took that in a very different way than everyone else's valid criticism. Please, criticize away. If he had've just started off with "It's terrible" and left out the first part I would have responded in a very different way. I'm even fine with everything else said.

I hope he just takes this as some reverse criticism. His feedback could be valuable to more people if he didn't default to being a dick just for being a dick's sake. I mean, this is a Newbie forum, right? Does he go to little league practice and dunk on them, too?

Since you want to learn:

First thing I see is a sign laid out like a business card with very little hierarchy. All the stuff in the teal section is the same height. When making a sign it must be set up to convey at a glance - too much info and that will not be successful. So you must have in mind what you want the viewer to see and what they will need - usually a phone number is more important than a wen address.

Second thing is the teal section has a lot of bubbles and and tunnels (almost wrinkles). This is likely because of squeegee technique - 3M calls for an advancement of 1/3 of the width of the squeegee per stroke. In reality 1/2 is plenty fine, but if you shoot for 1/3 you are more likely to lay the vinyl better and end up at a 1/2 anyway. The unlaid portion should be held such that it curves gently just ahead of touching the substrate and so that the squeegee applies it to the substrate - do not let it touch before the squeegee presses it down (wet application need not have this caution). Pay attention to how the vinyl feels in your hands as you lay it. After a bit of experience, you can ignore everything else and rely on the feel.

Lastly, remember that when a tunnel appears that can lead to wrinkles, and that what you are really doing is moving the air out from under it. The air needs somewhere to go! Tunnels can often be worked out by following them, but never by going across them as that causes adhesive to touch adhesive (once that happens you are done).

You asked, so we all responded. Keep in mind, the harsher comments likely were only given because you asked for comments. I think if you ignore the negative aspect of those you will see that even those contain advice from an experienced point of view.

Beautiful feedback and helpful advice. Thank you sir or her.

 

[Mr.Ry]

Anyway, moving past the earlier unpleasantness, I haven't had the time since making this thread to get back to the design because I've been busy with other matters, which includes working on my first window graphic for my first client. I'll hopefully have time to revisit the design tomorrow and incorporate the advice given here, and if you guys are interested I'll post up the design before running it to verify I'm not making any other cardinal design sins. Or, if you guys are sick of pandering to me by now, I'm more than content and confident with all the valuable info and feedback given to simply run with whatever my next design will be and live with it.

Either way, thanks again to everyone for their input. *grumble grumble* Yes, even you bob. Cheers.

 

[Boudica]

Chalk it up to different styles of "teaching". I had an art teacher in college who was not kind, and pretty much an asshole. (It might have been Bob) I had another who was always full of positive reinforcement, and was so gentil with instruction, I even forget which class that was. my point is... I learned way more from that one asshole (and other harsher method instructors) than I did from the softies. maybe not in the moment, but 30+ years later... I got more from the harsher instructors.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Video, please.

I don't want to make the girls go wild.

 

[JBurton]

Whoa! Another newbie might have been scared off after only one thread, and not by Gino this time.

IKR? I'm convinced I got heat stroke, or I fell into the twilight zone, somebody said Gino was a 'positive reinforcement'.

 

[Mr.Ry]

I seem to have caught Gino on one of his better days, it seems . I mean, his first comment got an "Ouch" response from me, but seemed like a reasonable way to paraphrase "Needs work kid, but keep going", and he later stated that I was showing some understanding of the basic fundamentals, and that's about as good of praise as I could have hoped for because that's what I was going for: safe and competent, not trying to blow minds necessarily. He later expressed he understood to see things from the perspective that this is my first sign with no instruction, guidance, or honestly any prior design background whatsoever. I'm sorry if to some that makes me a phony trying to invade your precious industry, but I'm just a guy who moved 2000km's to escape death-by-working-to-death in a major city where everyone tramples each other, now living in the beautiful middle of nowhere trying to find a way to put my skills and expertise to use where I am the master of my own domain. I'm not a threat to anyone here with my basic design skill, obviously, let alone my location. I'm more of a print shop than a dedicated signmaker, but sign making is where my capabilities seem to be best suited towards, and what most of my initial business inquiries have been, so that's where I'll likely be focusing a lot of my time and energy into, so I hope to learn and become proficient as quickly as possible, hence my being here.

That somehow sounds ranty or defensive still. Not the tone I'm trying to make if it comes across that way. Just happy to be here is all! Thanks again.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Here's my take on it.

"Fresh Prints" should be all one color so it looks like it goes togeater. You need an entry point.. something that will grab the eye first. That's why I put Fresh Prints in a dark color and large. The bottom text is in a grey box (I know... another color) but any of the other colors were too bright and competed with the "fresh prints". They way I think it should go is "Fresh Prints", then makery studio draws you down to the finial element, the details. Don't want to overload a sign with phone numbers and websites.. put that on your front door in vinyl, along w/ business hours. If there is too much info on a sign, it becomes completely unreadable. You need an entry point and flow so the eye has somewhere to go. With the competing colors in the initial drawing, it's hard to figure out what to look at and it becomes chaotic.

I'm sure there are design snobs on here that can complain about what I drew.. but I spent 15 mins on it and maybe someone else will pitch in. The paw print looks like the head of a penis, but that's a bonus.

 

[Mr.Ry]

I totally dig the arrangement, and I appreciate talking me through the philosophy behind the design, how the principles were used and why. I understood the principle of flow before, but now understand how to actually utilize it through an entry point. Totally makes sense, and I can get behind the reduction in colors for that reasoning... though I battle with the desire to retain the vibrancy and "freshness" that came with the green and orange, so I'm going to have to think about that one a bit.

Not sure I'm willing to completely not have any contact info on there. I'm currently operating out of space in my home, so putting the info up on my doorway would not provide enough visibility. I'd be willing to sacrifice the wording "Custom Merchandise & Apparel" to be able to fit everything else on the first two lines, and then have the web address, shortened to freshprintsofbellecote.com on the final line.

I also REALLY like teal/cyan, hence why the ry part of Makery is that (my name is Ryan, aka Ry, and, well yeah, 2 + 2 = 4), so would it be blasphemy to use that instead of the grey?

BTW, I'm not requesting that YOU make those changes, just getting opinion on if I were to adapt it in these ways.

 

[gnubler]

The paw print looks like the head of a penis, but that's a bonus.

Pretty sure that makes you gay.

Tex's update looks a lot cleaner and balanced. Honestly, I'd drop Fresh Prints and the 'penis logo' all together and just use Makery Studio, making it bigger, of course. I think the colored "ry" part is clever.

Sometimes simple is better. Or maybe all the time.

 

[JBurton]

Pretty sure that makes you gay.

Could be, but once something like that gets in your head, all you see are teaspoons on fedex trucks everywhere...
I'm kinda on board with dropping fresh prints for the parent name. To be fair, making signs is still makery. But fresh prints is a potentially more memoral name.

 

[Mr.Ry]

Honestly, I'd drop Fresh Prints and the 'penis logo' all together and just use Makery Studio, making it bigger, of course. I think the colored "ry" part is clever.

Ok, so the story behind why my name is what it is is that I originally just wanted it to be Makery Studio, or Makery Print Studio, and my initial research told me that should have been fine, so I went ahead and got my domain set up as makerystudio.ca, but then that name got rejected by the Canadian gov't as "not being distinct enough", which resulted in a 2 month back and forth appeal, where I tried different variations and they kept rejecting it. Then I realized the meme potential behind calling myself Fresh Prints since I live in a township called Belle Cote, and if it's not completely obvious "Fresh Prints" sounds similarly to "Fresh Prince" and Belle Cote is close to Bel Air, and well, now you have me mansplaining what I'm sure was obvious to most of you. Now, I didn't want to go all in on the meme, and I still wanted to salvage my makerystudio.ca domain that I was already setting things up under, so I figured the perfect stopgap was to call my business what it is, purchase the domain freshprintsofbellecote.com and then redirect that to my domain makerystudio.ca. And low and behold, Canadian gov't approved that name and now here we are.

tl;dr: I wanted to just be Makery Studio all along but couldn't due to some desk jockey

 

[Mr.Ry]

Oh, and honestly, if it looks like a penis... I think I'm ok with that. Gotta get in that subliminal messaging to the ladies around here (and probably more of the men than they'd care to admit).

Maybe I should go back to the rainbow version to complete the effect. Guess I gotta show you all the old version now so you can have the rainbow penis imprinted into the back of your twisted minds.

 

[Boudica]

I don't think it looks like a penis at all. I guess now that it's been called out I can see it if I'm trying to.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It's clearly a gay penis with 4 squirts coming out. It looks like the sand towers in the little mermaid cover art. I thought there was someone on here that enjoys making subliminal dicks in drawings?