Real Estate logo usage for mock-ups?

[ikarasu]

Noone got rich making real estate signs for brokers either.

You're hitting on a major problem and general laziness in people across many industries. Some guy bought a machine to do what screen printing would do. This was his opportunity to knock it out of the park. He could have stayed the same or undercut 10%, did half the work and made the same money. You don't buy a machine to lower your prices, you buy a machine to up your margins. People were getting the rate, why on earth would you go drop your pants?

Agreed! Its affected his work quality also .We outsource some things to him... And let's say the quality is less than great. We had tons of bubbles in the print, crooked panels... Etc.

When you only make 10-15% proffit on a job... If you mess one job up and have to reprint, that kills any proffit on the next 10 jobs. So if he messes up.. he just sends it out and hope no one complains.

Where as me... If I accidently smudge or crinkle a print in a spot no one will ever notice... I just chuck it and reprint. Or if it's an expensive sign... We take a pic, offer the customer a discount.. if they don't like it, full reprint at our cost. You lose some proffit... But one reason customers are coming back despite our prices being 50-75% higher is that they know they'll get quality work each and every time.

Usually all the low ballers are gone in a couple years anyways.which means less competition... So the people who pack business sense end up helping us out anyways!

 

[Clem’s]

Do you realize that most of the time, this is just a gimmick to protect themselves from people like you ??

Just about any written sales catalog is bogus. Even Feller's, Glantz, Pioneer and the rest of them..... you call them and they'll give ya a better price almost automatically. The posted costs are for reference only, unless you're too stupid to call for a better price. Haven't you ever googled and when it comes to the price, it'll say contact them in some sorts and you'll receive an updated price schedule ??

Knock yerself on out, but nobody ever got rich taking the rung lower and lower The race to the bottom is not a lonely one. You'll be surrounded by many many other bottom-feeders.

So if I can offer a product for $5 less then someone else and still make 50% profit I shouldn’t do it because I’m just driving the market lower? As far as pricing goes I have invoices from these other shops that a friend gave me so I know exactly what they are charging.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Price as you wish and get the business. If you have extra time and need the work do what you want to get it. I also went after real estate agents but eventually stopped marketing to them because I got busy. The "big" shops price those signs high because they are covered up with large orders and running their own large staff and facility. They are appalled when smaller, leaner people price below them because they feel they should get 99% of the sign work in their market and if your beating them then you must be "playing dirty".

As you grow youll get better jobs and you too will have to raise prices on realestate signs. Then someone else will come in with lower prices and take some from you but what do you care at that point, you got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Gino]

So if I can offer a product for $5 less then someone else and still make 50% profit I shouldn’t do it because I’m just driving the market lower? As far as pricing goes I have invoices from these other shops that a friend gave me so I know exactly what they are charging.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You didn't offer up this information earlier, did you ?? Now, of course you know exactly what to beat. You have inside information.

If the company that guy works for or some other sign shop finds out what you guys are pulling, you can get into a lotta trouble. This is no longer a question of pricing out, getting logos and copyrighted material and such..... it's now a question of integrity.

One thing to get your foot in the back door and price aggressively, but this...... this is just plain wrong.

 

[Billct2]

"As far as pricing goes I have invoices from these other shops that a friend gave me so I know exactly what they are charging."

"if the company that guy works for or some other sign shop finds out what you guys are pulling, you can get into a lotta trouble.........it's now a question of integrity.
One thing to get your foot in the back door and price aggressively, but this...... this is just plain wrong."

Why? Is there some kind of sign company/client privilege I don't know about? He doesn't say what position his "friend" is in to get those invoices, but unless the invoices were stolen or hacked I don't see a problem. I've occasionally had clients show me other companies proposals or receipts to verify that I was bidding on the same materials.

 

[Gino]

"As far as pricing goes I have invoices from these other shops that a friend gave me so I know exactly what they are charging."

"if the company that guy works for or some other sign shop finds out what you guys are pulling, you can get into a lotta trouble.........it's now a question of integrity.
One thing to get your foot in the back door and price aggressively, but this...... this is just plain wrong."

Why? Is there some kind of sign company/client privilege I don't know about? He doesn't say what position his "friend" is in to get those invoices, but unless the invoices were stolen or hacked I don't see a problem. I've occasionally had clients show me other companies proposals or receipts to verify that I was bidding on the same materials.

It's one thing to know what price you hafta beat on a particular sign, once in a great while, but to conduct your business in this manner is shameful. You're basing your price(s) off of what another shop needs to get. I've had people come back and say, you're a little too high..... can you sharpen your pencil a little ?? Also, as you have said, to make sure you're comparing same supplies and materials, but aren't the prices usually whited out ?? However, to have someone hand over all of their immediate invoices is almost considered a kickback. It doesn't matter that the company does not receive any money across their palm, but the mere fact, that they save money implies that some sort of kickback was involved. That...... is illegal. All I said was don't get caught. Please don't read more into than that.

 

[equippaint]

So if I can offer a product for $5 less then someone else and still make 50% profit I shouldn’t do it because I’m just driving the market lower? As far as pricing goes I have invoices from these other shops that a friend gave me so I know exactly what they are charging.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

$5 is not enough incentive to leave an established vendor. I dont see any problems with having invoices to see what they are currently paying, Im sure we have all done this at some point. We match prices all of the time but I don't beat them. I'll use the pricing and back into it to see if it works for us, if it's too low I'm just honest with them and say I cant at this but for $X its no problem and pretty much never lose the deal. It just makes no sense that you would go and cut it, they are already paying that price. Surely you have to have some personal value that you can sell

 

[Bigdawg]

Illegal? I really don't think so. Unethical? Maybe. If they were legit invoices that his friend shared with him, I'm not sure where your issue comes in or what makes that illegal. Definitely not a kickback and it's just plain silly to imply it is.

 

[Gino]

Call it what you like........ a court case one time, not involving me, but I was a witness........ the person was asked if this was the normal way/procedure of his doing business. He said no. The judge then asked why he decided to do it this way ?? He said to get a better idea of what my competition was doing. He was told he is on the very brink of dealing with kickbacks. The guy's lawyer refused the accusation and the judge told him, just what I said earlier.

Do what ya want, but I'd never take another shop's invoices, dissect them and beat it by $5 per item. That's just bad sh!t.

Call it silly, call it being overly cautious, but I do what I was told when it comes to this kinda stuff.

 

[equippaint]

This may sound dumb but are kickbacks to non public employees illegal? I don't see how they could be. Don't take it wrong, I'm not condoning it as it is extremely unethical on both sides.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Illegal??? Your only talking about viewing another shops invoice..I mean come on...thats a stretch.

I would like to look at all my competitors invoices so I know exactly where the market is. You know who else is looking at your competitor's invoices?? Your customers!! I'm not saying I will beat them all by $5 but knowing market prices is invaluable. The fall from your high horses could really do some damage so be careful up there!

 

[Marlene]

Doesn't sound illegal but it does sound sleezy.

 

[Rick]

Most states have some level of non-disclosure. A smart employer would have an employee sign a more aggressive NDA. I believe in my state, if I was an employee of a sign company, and I handed over the invoices to a competing sign company (or buddy), or I printed out the invoices to use as information for my own personal use, and cause economic harm to that company, it would be illegal.

Seems unethical to use that information... but then again, it's unethical to reproduce trademark and copyright without permission, even if you can get away with it. If you are gonna be unethical, go balls deep man...

 

[Bigdawg]

I may have understood that friend/invoices thing wrong. I thought they were his friend's invoices - not invoices that he ripped off from the company he worked for. If that's the case, not only unethical and downright wrong, but I would think it would be considered theft from your employer.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I may have understood that friend/invoices thing wrong. I thought they were his friend's invoices - not invoices that he ripped off from the company he worked for. If that's the case, not only unethical and downright wrong, but I would think it would be considered theft from your employer.

That was my impression, that they had invoices...not that they ripped them off

 

[Gino]

I may have understood that friend/invoices thing wrong. I thought they were his friend's invoices - not invoices that he ripped off from the company he worked for. If that's the case, not only unethical and downright wrong, but I would think it would be considered theft from your employer.

In most cases, when dealing with a franchise real estate company, you rarely are negotiating with the owner or bookkeeper. It's some agent who has gotten the invoices in a somewhat unethical manner and is sharing to get a better price for himself. If things go well, they might share that information with the rest of the company. However, he/she will never tell how the initial price war got started.

 

[Johnny Best]

No matter what we say, if it is right or wrong the guy is going to do want he wants at the end of the day.
It does sound a little shady and unethical though. Would not want anyone doing that to my business.
Looking at receipts that are not his, copying logos and signs, undercutting the competition by $5, good business model.

 

[equippaint]

I took it as someone associated in real estate showed him an invoice for something they purchased. We get that a lot, invoices from the purchaser. Yeah, if its an inside job then you're asking for trouble.

 

[ikarasu]

I don't see it as any different than Safeway walking into Albertsons, checking their prices and lowering it.

A price isn't exactly confidential... Most of our real estate prices are on our ordering forms. Long time Customers get a bit of a discount... but our prices are for everyone to see.

We have a lot of Chinese shops in our area... Our real estate agents actually told us they get their signs for $10-15 cheaper per piece from one of those shops. Times that by 20-30 Signs... And that's a huge savings. Usually they come back to us after their first couple orders. Those that don't mind the cheapest crap on the market stay, and they're usually the ones who try to haggle on prices, want 20 free re-proofs, etc .

We get customers who order 300+ signs at once, customers from different brokerages who heard of our quality... Some people don't mind purplish blues or orange reds, and that's what the cheapest signs will get you. Real estate makes us money, but it's a filler... The proffit is nowhere as near as any of our other ventures.

So if you want to sell a sign for $5 proffit, and think that $5 is worth your time... Feel free to go ahead and try.

 

[Johnny Best]

Safeway is not seeing receipts for what Albertsons paid for tomatoes. I am sure they have a good idea but are not going to reduce the price that much because the margins get pretty small. Now Aldis and TraderJoes price are lower than most local food stores on certain items but also no bags and a quarter for the shopping cart, so they cut down on labor costs. And the Chinese shops probably have lower labor costs or use cheaper materials than your shop. But then again, if you saw the Chinese receipts your not going to lower your rate $5 just to get the job because you would not be making enough of a profit.
He, Clem's, says by lowering his price $5 he will make a 50% profit. Maybe the OP, Clem's, is Chinese.

I rarely do real estate stock signs. By the time you deal with a perfumed person who talks continually and gives you the side-eye when you give a price, it is not worth the problem or profit. I do a lot of newbuilds 4x8s and 4x6s boards, construction fences with pics of architectural renderings of how everything is going to look but that is through their marketing firms or architect.