recommendation needed for new laptop

[WildWestDesigns]

I would only recommend a Mac if you were going to, or have already invested in any combination of IPad, Ipod Touch, Iphone and/or Apple TV

None of those would convert me to a Mac.

iPad and iTouch(2 of those actually, had to do the upgrade when more memory came out) and I would still never fully convert to a Mac. Do have a MacBook and I think it's call the iMac, only reason I have those is my dad didn't want to have to deal with the learning curve of a different OS. To be honest, it did hurt my head for awhile when I was trying to learn.

Macs are also not any more secure then PCs, is all about "more bang for your buck". Why would the virus people create a virus that could affect 3 people when they could create one that could affect 7? Just a bigger PC owning population versus Mac now.

Macs do have their good points, but like everything, there is a time and place and for what else I'm seeing in this thread, it isn't there. I would also hate to see what the Mac version of my dad's computer would cost.

 

[schramm]

Good valid points and believe me I am not trying to convert anyone, it was just a valid option. I have not been a Mac user for quite a year yet and I do not use any of my hard drive for pc as I also own 3 pcs. I run 30% of my busiss off of an iPad. Yes you will have to drop $3000 into a Mac if you want a desktop and yes that may not be worth it to some but Mac people love Mac and pc driven people don't want to convert and that is fine. I also don't shop much at walmart because I like target better that's what is called personal choice. The points made by all that own a Mac are semi valid to an older Mac but like all technology you will loose out by not seeing what makes the new ones better. By the way if you want to drive a % of your hd on your Mac with pc, then don't use bootcamp with you Mac as it has lots of bugs there many better softwares for that. Keep this in mind these are doody my opinions which I have a right to as you do to yours.

 

[CropMarks]

I was a Mac user since 1991.... since my very first layout on a B&W Macintosh Classic. Mac's I've owned or used... LCII, Powermac 9800?, orange iMac 266, eMac 1ghz, G4 dual 450, G5 dual 2.0, intel imac 1.86 core duo, imac 2.0 core2duo, Black Macbook 2.0 core2duo....... and you know what? I walked away from it all and my life has been all rainbows, unicorns and happy fuzzy kittens. I fell in love with Vista of all things and found my life got way easier. With windows 7 I really feel Microsoft made a pretty great product, not the best ever... but pretty great.

I buy all my stuff from newegg and build my own systems now, at about 1/3 of the price. As far as laptops go.... I like Toshiba or ASUS.

It's just my opinion... not the holy gospel.

 

[SAS]

I picked up a HP DV7 17.3" Notebook 6GB DDR3 RAM 640GB HD,Blu-ray 9-cell Battery 2.9GHz AMD Phenom II dual-core mobile processor.
I ordered it Sun. for $949.80 at QVC it came in yesterday. I like it so far, my other laptop lasted for about 5 years the fan started knocking.
Just went to QVC's website and it's back up to $999 but if you pay with a credit card you can pay over 6 mo.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I buy all my stuff from newegg and build my own systems now, at about 1/3 of the price. As far as laptops go.... I like Toshiba or ASUS.

It's just my opinion... not the holy gospel.

As far as what's in bold, that's what I would recommend with regard to laptops. With regard to buildingin your own systems and getting the parts from newegg, that's the way I would go with my tower systems. You can just get so much more out of a system when you are able to pick and choose from companies that specialize in HDs or graphics cards, or DDR3 sticks etc.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Early this year I was in the market for a new laptop. My budget was a bit more than $1000. I wanted as powerful as I could get. I did look at Macs. and ultimately it can down to three models. A Macbook pro 17" a Dell XPS 17 and the hp Envy 17.

I ended up getting the Envy 17 for a few reasons. The first was that my old laptop was an hp and it had lasted me about 6 years with zero problems. In fact, my parents are still using it.

The second reason was that every thing I own is windows based, and the main program I use, Corel, is only developed for windows. Sure I could install windows on a mac, but that is an extra expense... and what is the point in owning a Mac if all I'm going to only use windows?

Third, the top of the line Dell was a just a little-bit cheaper (like about $100), but didn't have the specs that the hp envy had, and the additional power on the envy was worth the minimal additional cost. A similar Mac (spec wise), on the other hand, was about a grand more then the envy. What killed the Mac option for me was that even with that higher price, At the time, they didn't have i7s, hp did. So If I did get a mac, I would be spending a significant amount more, for a laptop with a lesser processor. It just didn't make sense for me.

I think once you start getting into the high end machines, Apple's start getting extremely pricey, which makes many of other PC brands out their more attractive.

And I have to tell you. I'm glad I went with the envy. This thing is lightning fast and is the highest quality computer I have ever owned.

My suggestion for those in the market is this: Do your research. Go to Cnet and look at the reviews, compare the specs and the prices.

They have a 14" version of the envy for only $999

compare the specs to the $999 macbook:

envy=Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-370M Dual Core processor (2.40GHz, 3MB L3 Cache)
macbook=2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

envy=4GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
mac=2GB DDR3 memory

envy=500GB 7200RPM Hard Drive with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
mac=250GB hard drive1

envy=1GB ATI Mobility Radeon(TM) HD 5650 switchable graphics [HDMI] - For Dual Core Processors
mac=NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics processor with 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM shared with main memory

envy=14.5" diagonal High Definition HP BrightView Infinity LED Display (1366x768)
mac=13.3-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display with support for millions of colors (1280 by 800)

envy=brushed aluminum in carbon relic (metal)
mac=Polycarbonate unibody enclosure

envy=Up to 6.0 hours of battery life (8 cell)
mac=battery 10 hours wireless productivity

envy=5.57 lbs/ 1.09" thin
mac=4.7 pounds/ 1.08"thin

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTM3NDc0OTE

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...odexp/hhoslp/psg/notebooks/ENVY/ENVY14_series

 

[choucove]

schramm, I do feel it was incredibly rude to assume my level of exposure, usage, or understanding of Apple computers. Owning my own computer business I have to make repair calls on a few locations here in town that have several iMac and Macbook computers, including the local public library and two photography studios. I do not personally own a Mac computer, but I do run VirtualBox virtualization software with a virtual machine of OSX 10.6 to troubleshoot and work through issues I have on these customers systems. And I've been in and out of the Apple store several times in the last couple years and have actually walked out two of those times having fixed the "disgruntled PC guys" issues that he was wanting to switch over to a Mac to fix. Your statements towards PC quality, trial software popups, and everything else only falls into a select category of the cheap Dell off-the-shelf computers. That small group of the PC market does have its issues with support and bloatware sometimes, I know that very well. However, it's only a fraction of the overall PC market and if you know what you are looking for or know what you are doing none of the issues you mentioned having with a PC do not even exist I can guarantee. If you get a PC from me I guarantee you can pull it out of the box and be up and running online in less than 5 minutes without any annoying popups or trial software or your money back. In the end I chose not to own a Mac because I can run a virtual machine of OSX (and Linux and Windows XP) on my PC computer for a fraction of the cost of a similar Mac Pro.

Lets stop assuming how much one person has experience with something to try and invalidate their points and return to the question posed and the purpose of the thread which is directions for computers based on the criteria and concerns of the original poster.

Joe pointed out above an excellent option as well, the HP Envy series of notebooks have caused a huge stir in the laptop realm for offering very great performance and quality in a consumer line of notebooks and prices. Recent surveys even put higher customer satisfaction with the HP Envy laptops than with Macbook Pros.

You can list up an infinite pairings of prices and configurations here between Apple laptops or desktops and similar PCs but the point has already been made and is an obvious point in making any decision between the two. Right now is a good time of the year to be purchasing as there are often lots of good deals being run. Unfortunately, many of the best deals are very sporadic and may only be available for a day or two. My suggestion, whichever computer you decide to go with, is do a little shopping around online for a while to see what the best bargains you might be able to find, such as the major discount running on the Envy 14 notebook. This is a coupon for $300 off custom configurations of HP Envy such as below:

Logic Buy: HP Envy 14 with Core i7 Mobile Quad-Core Processor for $999

Core i7-720
6 GB DDR3
640GB 7,200rpm HDD
Radeon HD 5650 1GB
2-year warranty & free shipping

 

[CropMarks]

@ choucove.... A Linux fan!.... I've been toying around with Mint 10 lately for one of my kids computers... pretty dang solid and runs really well on the little Atom computer I built for her. Works great and is FREE with lots of FREE software.

 

[CropMarks]

also.... Chuocove's statement "Your statements towards PC quality, trial software popups, and everything else only falls into a select category of the cheap Dell off-the-shelf computers."

Yeah, I can't stand off the shelve computers either.... that's the awesome fun thing about building your own.... you install an os that you buy (like win7...) and you have none of the craptacular bloatware. Computer manufacturers love destroying the user experience...so it's not a windows issue... it a hp, compact, acer, etc... issue.

I agree with linux guy

 

[jiarby]

I think Mac's are a good, well made product.... I just do not think they are worth 2-3x the money. For the record, I used to be employed (two lifetimes ago it seems) supporting Claris Software (owned by Apple... Filemaker Pro) and also UMAX Clone Macintosh Computers (great machine for it's time!). After that I was employed by Motorola to do onsite semiconductor fab support. At the time, Motorola mfg'd the "Power PC" processor and the company was 75% MAC 25% PC. I have/had a great deal of computer support & network experience.

A funny note.... while I was at Motorola they decided to replace everyone's Apple with a shiny new Windows NT PC. OMG! You have never seen so many people whine & moan and act like a 5 year old as when you take away their new G3 Tower (in my opinion the 1st of the "NEW" Macs... maybe OS/9?) and replace it with a Dell NT Workstation.

You WILL be assimilated!

 

[greglauter]

It's easy to compare Macs vs PC on paper. But until you have worked on both Mac and PC regularly, you simply don't know what you are talking about. It's not all about processor, RAM and hard drive specs... it's how the CPU is optimized to perform more efficiently with the hardware installed. I have owned both for over 15 years and I prefer Mac for three simple reasons 1. Mac OS is a much more stable operating system than Windows in my opinion of 15 years. Ever notice how Windows have been looking and functioning more and more like Mac's OS lately? 2. No virus on my Mac since day one (Dated back to Mac2ci). 3. I can run Windows native on my mac and it Windows flawlessly (well as flawless as WIndows allows) Just my opinion, do your homework and don't be afraid to try new things. Good Luck!

 

[signcrafters london]

I come from a newspaper/desktop publishing background and used Macs exclusively from 1988 to ~ 2000. For most of that period, IMO, they were far superior to PCs. In those days, MacsCs::beta:VHS. PCs took over because of better marketing and the laziness of Apple to promote its own product. If Apple marketed itself then the way it does now, PCs may have been extinct by now.

I finally got sick of software upgrades/updates (Flexi for example) being years and years behind Windows, and often not being able to even find software for Mac. I made the switch and will never go back. Curse you Apple. I will never spend another penny with them. I hope they go broke tomorrow.

/hijack

 

[SignBurst PCs]

I find that there are many Mac myths out there, especially the "faster" and "better for design" myths. While this may have been true many years ago, this simply is not true now. Windows 7 is a great OS (in my opinion) and in my situation (large format graphic design focused), I find almost nothing lacking that would temp me to go anywhere else. Honestly, the OS is the only difference between the two. A Mac Pro and a high end PC are nearly identical inside. If anything, a custom built PC has the advantage of installing higher quality components as you are pretty limited with component choices in the Mac.

Everyone has their own opinions and preferences, there is no getting around that. As Choucove said, with all things being equal, the platform and software you are familiar with is usually the better platform for the individual. If you are comfortable on OSX (Mac), then you should probably stick to a Mac unless you need something that is PC exclusive (software usually).

To get a true high-quality, design capable Mac, you are usually looking at a Mac Pro and they are not cheap, but usually are good quality. That is not always the case though. I personally know of a member of this forum who bought two pretty pricey Macs (over $3k each after upgrades) this year only to find out that Photoshop didn't run properly on them (10+ second lag after every command) and to my knowledge, this is an issue to this day. The funny thing is that they bought a RIP system from us (as most RIPs are PC based, with few exceptions) that was faster and more stable than their Mac design systems.

As for the OPs questions, I would stick with a PC. Although you can get Windows 7 to run on a Mac, it is a pain to have to boot in and out (back and forth) between OSX and Windows. Also, you can get Flexi and Office for Mac, but please believe me when I tell you that both of those software packages are much better on PC, without a doubt. To be clear, I have a lot of experience in the computer industry (Mac too). I have been to the Apple store (many times) and always leave without a Mac. I am usually there to get a monitor as they sell a pretty good one if you can afford it.

We build our own laptops and therefor get to pick the components. This has its advantages for sure, but for $1000, you may be limited as to what you get no matter what brand you go with. Dell, HP, and Apple all have great laptops if you choose the right model, but none of their good models are in the $1000 range. Honestly, if you compare feature for feature and take into account the quality of the hardware inside, the PCs are usually a better value for most people.

One thing to consider that I haven't heard a lot about in this thread is support. Although this isn't usually considered in the initial cost of the product, it ALWAYS is a factor in the life of the computer. You may save a few hundred $$$ going one way or another initially, but end up paying much more than your initial savings in support, repair, or lost productivity (downtime) if you purchase a system with lower quality hardware. I like the idea of buying “right” the first time and not having to struggle later. This should be a factor no matter which brand you are considering.

I try to not get into the Mac vs PC argument anymore. It is a tough argument and people are often very loyal to one or the other without rational reasoning. There are many good options out there, but as with anything , you usually get what you pay for no matter which brand you choose.

@ Choucove: I have my 8yo daughter running the Ubuntu flavor of Linux. I love the idea that it is so simple (as long as you don't make it complicated) and that is exactly what she needs 99% of the time. It is great because I have it installed on a 6 year old laptop that was way too slow for Windows, but is very speedy in Ubuntu. Not much malware out there for her to run into that can infect Linux and that is a big plus too. Cheap, fast, and easy.

 

[Joe Diaz]

It's easy to compare Macs vs PC on paper. But until you have worked on both Mac and PC regularly, you simply don't know what you are talking about. It's not all about processor, RAM and hard drive specs... it's how the CPU is optimized to perform more efficiently with the hardware installed.

I've used both Mac and Pc, so based on your statement that must mean I know what I'm talking about. But I disagree with you. It is about Processor Ram and Hard drive space. Otherwise why get the higher specked $2500 macbook pro when you could easily get the $999 macbook. Files aren't magical smaller on a Mac so of course hard drive size is a factor. And sure, you can claim that a mac makes better use of it's hardware (which is debatable), but really???? by how much? Do you know for certian? Are you shaving a few seconds off of a specific process? and is that worth the doubled price tag? Obviously it isn't for a huge amount of people that choose to not fall for the hype and are perfectly happy with the many options that are available for a PC user.

I mean really.... You honestly think double the memory isn't going to make a difference???

Ever notice how Windows have been looking and functioning more and more like Mac's OS lately?

Who cares?

No virus on my Mac since day one (Dated back to Mac2ci).

NO virus on my PC. cost for PC: free virus scan software suite, cost for a mac: $1000 extra dollars for an overpriced system who's main reason for having less virus attacks is that it is in the minority.

I can run Windows native on my mac and it Windows flawlessly (well as flawless as WIndows allows)

Well that renders your comment about viruses moot. Do you not have a virus scan when you use windows because you run it on a Mac? Does Apple somehow sprinkle fairy dust on the exact same hardware you can get on a PC that makes running windows on a mac safer??? And I don't see switching between operating systems to get things accomplished as a pro. I perfectly happy running everything on one operating system that from experince seems pretty darn stable to me.

 

[CropMarks]

Yeah.... the whole fanboy thing (mac vs pc) is completely craptacular and silly. Macs and PC's are both good machines... kinda like two different car companies... They both will get you where you want to go. Is one better than the other? Maybe at a couple of certain things... I like how there's way more software and drivers in the PC world. I like how there are not that many virus issues with macs... Yet. Can macs do a better job at design? No, not for me. With my budget I can build a way better/faster machine in PC form than I can buy in the form of an apple.

 

[Rick]

All this mac vs pc and personal stories does not mean crap except to the person telling the story....

To answer High Impacts question...

No, you can not get a Mac notebook and run PC on it for 1000 bucks.

You need a reason to make the switch, some may be personal, some may be related to technical stuff. The reasons you stated are probably not enough to switch.

If the school you were using the computer at required or preferred a Mac... that may be a good reason. But from what I have read on your post, you are probably better off with PC.

Now all you have to do is choose something that meets your needs from the hundreds of options you have....

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You know what "kills" me about that no virus on Mac line is that you have to look at efficiency. Are you going to create a virus that can infect 3 computers or are you going to create a virus that can infect 7 computers? It's not that Mac is any more stable then windows, it's more about how many computers can we wreck havoc on with this one virus.

 

[greglauter]

I've used both Mac and Pc, so based on your statement that must mean I know what I'm talking about. But I disagree with you. It is about Processor Ram and Hard drive space. Otherwise why get the higher specked $2500 macbook pro when you could easily get the $999 macbook. Files aren't magical smaller on a Mac so of course hard drive size is a factor. And sure, you can claim that a mac makes better use of it's hardware (which is debatable), but really???? by how much? Do you know for certian? Are you shaving a few seconds off of a specific process? and is that worth the doubled price tag? Obviously it isn't for a huge amount of people that choose to not fall for the hype and are perfectly happy with the many options that are available for a PC user.

I mean really.... You honestly think double the memory isn't going to make a difference???


Who cares?


NO virus on my PC. cost for PC: free virus scan software suite, cost for a mac: $1000 extra dollars for an overpriced system who's main reason for having less virus attacks is that it is in the minority.


Well that renders your comment about viruses moot. Do you not have a virus scan when you use windows because you run it on a Mac? Does Apple somehow sprinkle fairy dust on the exact same hardware you can get on a PC that makes running windows on a mac safer??? And I don't see switching between operating systems to get things accomplished as a pro. I perfectly happy running everything on one operating system that from experince seems pretty darn stable to me.

If you read what I wrote again it says "It's not ALL about processor, RAM and hard drive specs" my point was the OS is a huge factor people tend to forget about. I'm not negating the importance of the processor, RAM and hard drive of any CPU. And I never said "double the memory isn't going to make a difference". I'm saying I prefer Macs OS over Windows from my experience and my opinion. Just like you have your opinion. Regarding running Windows on my Mac. For the last 6-7 years running Bootcamp/VM Ware Fusion (Windows) on my Mac, I have had no viruses (I guess it's the fairy dust). I have a small HP I use as my printer RIP and it picks viruses up every so often (With MacAfee installed and running). I'm glad you are happy with your PC as i am happy with my Mac. Again, just my OPINION. Cheers!

 

[greglauter]

(side note) By the way Joe, I am a huge fan of your families design and print work. Very nice stuff!

 

[choucove]

Yay more linux guys! Its a shame that I haven't worked more with it in the last couple years, but it was the only thing we were even allowed to run while in the School of Engineering at Kansas University. We used Fedora linux there and I have been very impressed with it from day one. Not only do you have a solid operating system (that runs like a dream even on the most simple computer!) but it comes pre-installed (or direct access to download for free) any piece of software you could dream of wanting or needing. Would you like a professional-grade video editing software to rival Adobe Premiere CS3? How about a database, spreadsheet, or document editor? Maybe Inkscape and GIMP to use for all your image editing and design needs? Sure, all you need for free! By the by, the biggest triumphs that Apple enjoys with their operating system is because it is, in fact, completely based on a UNIX kernel. Get linux and you can get that same kernel for free on any computer imaginable.

However, linux does have its place, and unfortunately there are enough differences that make it unable to break into the mainstream consumer market yet. However, I feel that is 100% because of instruction. People aren't learning how to use a computer on Linux, they're learning on either PC or Mac or both, but never is linux thrown in unless you're in a specialized industry or education. It really is a shame because it can be so simple and easy to work with and many flavors of linux today, such as Fedora and Ubuntu, are so very similar in layout as other familiar operating systems like Windows and OSX.