Recurrent problem with Roland VS-300, nozzles go missing when doing cleaning. Come back after head soak... HELP!

[damonCA21]

Thanks for the tips, someone also mentioned that it looks like de-laminating and to try with a syringe to put solution through the head. If it comes out on the side then its de-lamination. I have been using aftermarket cleaning solution and apparently its not good for the head. I just ordered a bottle of ESL5 to use with the new print head in the future.

Thats great regarding the replacement, so just need to remove the cover with dampers which shouldn't really leak. Then replace the head and put those back. I didnt know there was an actual physical adjustment on the head, I thought it was just screws on it that can go only one way and the rest was printer calibration in the settings and making sure to check my flushing adjustment. Any tips on how to position it in there?

Since you are a roland dealer tech maybe you can answer that. I am purchasing the new head from a Roland authorized dealer. I was asking about the warranty on it as I have read in the past that sometimes they can have issues out of the box. They told me the 90 days warranty for Roland only applies if their own tech do the installation and register the head for warranty. Meaning that even if I would hire a certified tech from another company, the warranty on the head wouldn't be honored. Is that normal in the business or something I should be worried? Im not sure how common it is to get a defective head but sounds like I would be shit out of luck if that happens.

If you are getting the head from a Roland dealer then it is very unlikely to be defective. There are other companies that sell them like Digiprint who get seconds and they often have problems.
It is common in most industries though that if you don't use their officially recognised techs to install the part then the warranty doesn't apply. Particularly with heads there are so many ways non qualified people can mess them up when fitting them, they can't be expected to honour warranties.

 

[psychopat]

If you are getting the head from a Roland dealer then it is very unlikely to be defective. There are other companies that sell them like Digiprint who get seconds and they often have problems.
It is common in most industries though that if you don't use their officially recognised techs to install the part then the warranty doesn't apply. Particularly with heads there are so many ways non qualified people can mess them up when fitting them, they can't be expected to honour warranties.

Thanks for the info, good to know.

Just to see I got a quote for the installation from their own tech and since they do not have any, one has to travel from Montreal. For the work + travel charges etc, comes to almost 1500 additional.
Im already in for close to 5K with the previous oem parts + new head etc. Seems already like quite a money pit for an old printer that isnt worth much even on the used market.
So I will probably go ahead with the replacement myself, other than the adjustments after I was pretty much 3 screws away.

I see what you previously mentioned about the bias, its under the head alignment section in the service manual.
I also noticed for installing the head, they specify a torque driver model that has a 3% accuracy and the torque amount on the head screws.

I was wondering how crucial is the accuracy? I was looking at buying a FIRSTINFO precision torque screwdriver with a 6% accuracy (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00XV8GVQK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ALG9VSBC5I2EQ&th=1)
6kgt-cm equals to 0.588399 newton meter. So setting it at 6 NM would probably do the trick?

I always been using OEM parts and OEM ink, however I was using aftermarket cleaning solution in the past. I was told often they contain different chemicals that can actually damage the head internally or de laminate it. To always only use the Roland ESL5 cleaning solution which is safe to use, even if head soaks etc. are required at some point. Is that accurate? I ordered a bottle with the new head.

thanks again for the valuable information.

 

[damonCA21]

With all the many heads I have replaced in the past, I have never torqued the screws to hold them. As long as they are normally tight then they are fine

 

[damonCA21]

And yes, always use a cleaning solution that matches whatever ink you are using. It may be fine, but is a lot safer to use the same thing so you know it won't cause any issues

 

[psychopat]

ok big update here. I removed the old head and tried flushing it to see if it would help, however it looked pretty much the same and the magenta and yellow also had large missing spots. So the head was indeed the issue...

I then went ahead with the head replacement. After the replacement was done I had to run a powerful cleaning and the new head fired nicely, was missing a very few nozzles, I ran a medium cleaning then I was at 100%.

One small issue I ran into is one of the black o-ring on the damper stayed in the old head when removed. I was able to put it back using tweezers. Just hoping this doesn't cause any issues and its sealing well, any idea what to look for if this is a problem? Can ink build up inside the head if a damper leaks? So far I did those cleaning cycles and printed 4-5 small jobs, I kept the cover off just to inspect that everything looked normal and I didnt notice any leaking or anything wrong with it so I installed everything back.

I also did the head bias (nothing needed to change) and ran all the calibrations as well.

One thing that I noticed, is the "faded" area when doing the head calibration normal (see below)? Sorry for the bad picture but as you can see there is a small faded area between the head passes.
Same as within the nozzle print test, if you look closely its it a bit dimmer when the 2nd head pass starts.

Sometimes it shows perfectly normal, wasn't sure if that is a problem or is something like the pump could cause this.
The prints are looking great and nothing else seems abnormal.

 

[psychopat]

The last issue I ran, I bought new Roland OEM ink from a Roland authorized distributor. Some of the ink received is 2 years or more after the manufacturing date.

From what I recall, Roland says there's a 2 year shelf life for Eco sol max ink right? Would anyone know a link of an official statement from Roland, would love to send it over.
I contacted the dealer and they told me they have a 3-4 years shelf life and I should have no issues.

Cartridges are dated:
20230401 & 20230101

That doesnt seem within Roland standards. I tried contacting Roland but I havent heard back yet. The company shouldnt be selling old ink...
I was worried putting them in even if they just expired as a new set last me like 6 months as I print only part time. Planning to return them and order another set from a different Roland dealer.

 

[Zoogee World]

The last issue I ran, I bought new Roland OEM ink from a Roland authorized distributor. Some of the ink received is 2 years or more after the manufacturing date.

From what I recall, Roland says there's a 2 year shelf life for Eco sol max ink right? Would anyone know a link of an official statement from Roland, would love to send it over.
I contacted the dealer and they told me they have a 3-4 years shelf life and I should have no issues.

View attachment 176528


Cartridges are dated:
20230401 & 20230101

That doesnt seem within Roland standards. I tried contacting Roland but I havent heard back yet. The company shouldnt be selling old ink...
I was worried putting them in even if they just expired as a new set last me like 6 months as I print only part time. Planning to return them and order another set from a different Roland dealer.

Yes, standard is only 2 years from the Manufacturing date, however, I have in the past used ink that was older and they worked fine. I make it regular practice to gently shake the inks on all my printers weekly, just to make sure everything stays well mixed.

 

[psychopat]

ok thanks. I think I will finish my current cartridges that are already on the machine but will make sure to get the new ones from a different source in the future.

Regarding my nozzle test and the head calibration feed tests.
I noticed when watching videos the blocks its printing are usually solid:

Is there anything specific that can cause mine to be faded on the lower edge of the 2nd print pass? Here is what I mean from my print tests. Somehow when the ink should meet its faded. However its not faded on each sides.

It also seems to show on all colors when doing my nozzle print test, there is a slight fade between the 2 head passes. Wanted to make sure this isnt showing a sign of failure of something like a pump etc.
*When fiddling around the old head to see if I could find a workaround to finish my print job, I also ran all of those tests and I had the same fade along the edge. So I don't think its head related.

When printing, it looks great. Im still a bit worried about the o-ring that came off when pulling off the dampers to change the head. I managed to put it back and everything looks good.
I forgot to moist them with cleaning solution before putting them in the new head.

What are the signs if one of the seal is bad? I guess that would leave air in the system and it should show on the nozzle test right?

Could the ink build up inside the head cavity if somehow one of the seals are bad? How would that reflect when printing, like drops and leaks from the head?

Would be very helpful to know what to watch for.
Thank you

 

[damonCA21]

The o ring should be fine. If one fails you are more likely to get ink starvation to the head as air will enter the system. In an extreme case it could cause leaking from the damper onto the head, but this isn't that common

 

[psychopat]

The o ring should be fine. If one fails you are more likely to get ink starvation to the head as air will enter the system. In an extreme case it could cause leaking from the damper onto the head, but this isn't that common

ok awesome! thanks, thats good to know. I will keep on monitoring everything closely especially for my first few batches.

About the small fade along the edge of the print tests, have you ever seen anything like it? It was the same with the old head as well. It seems quite minor and prints are coming out ok, just wanted to make sure its not a sign of something that might be failing soon. Cap top, wipers, dampers, head are all new.

 

[vondegroot]

For the future... Check out AliExpress. There are a couple of vendors that sell really great dampers, cap tops, and pumps. The only issue I have had is the ink pumps come dry. And so do the exact same units from DigiPrint, for double the cost. But I just open them up and coat everything in pure silicone lube

Did you change the head yourself, or have the tech come out?