Refillable Cartriges

[Tommyp]

Hey does anyone have any success with refillable cartridges for their wide format printer? I have a Canon IPF8400s and would love to save money on ink.

 

[Solventinkjet]

They introduce way too many problems to save you any money. If you are going to go with a bulk system, which I only recommend if you are going through at least a full set of cartridges per month, spend the money on a professional, fully closed system that uses a mid-cartridge. Refillable cartridges are susceptible to dust and debris entering the system, the septum tends to wear out and cause air leaks, they are messy and they fail about every 6 months if you get lucky.

 

[Tommyp]

They introduce way too many problems to save you any money. If you are going to go with a bulk system, which I only recommend if you are going through at least a full set of cartridges per month, spend the money on a professional, fully closed system that uses a mid-cartridge. Refillable cartridges are susceptible to dust and debris entering the system, the septum tends to wear out and cause air leaks, they are messy and they fail about every 6 months if you get lucky.

Is this from personal experience?

 

[nate]

Is this from personal experience?

No that's from a dealer's perspective (I don't know but Jordan is a Roland/Mimaki dealer).

Anyway I had a few of the Roland XJ-740 machines back in the day, and I can share this which is from personal experience:

The more reputable brands of 3rd party ink do a great job. I would suggest though, that you use 3rd party inks if you're printing a good chunk of materials. One thing I found with the Triangle Inks, the Solaris inks and the Bordeaux inks (all three of which I have used extensively) is that they are a bit more "hotter" in the solvent area than the eco-sol you're used to using. If you keep the inks flowing through (ie by printing a lot) you should never see an issue.

Also, I found that the inks mentioned above all have a bit quicker response to temperature. So, for instance, if you're running 50 degrees Celsius with Eco-Sol, run one of the above at 48 degrees.

In any event, if you were to have a problem, the three companies above have a warranty that will fix anything on the ink train. It really is a no brainer.

Oh and Jordan is correct-- using a closed system like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301821374705?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

 

[Solventinkjet]

From personal and customer experience. We used to sell refillable cartridges. We stopped when people started sending them back and charging back. We tried 3 different manufacturers. And by the way, we don't sell bulk systems, so I have no incentive to muddy the waters about refillable cartridges.

There is a difference between a refillable cartridge and a bulk system. I have nothing against bulk systems, just refillable cartridges.

 

[JasonMeisnerSTS]

We offer great inks for the IPF8400 and no profile change or flush is required. I am familiar with all three of the above companies as well and some surely do have good products as well. In terms of a solvent ink with less sell and closer to the original, users find our inks are closer to using OEM ink. for the IPF8400, the cost savings is substantial enough where refillable cartridges are not the best route to go sometimes. My end user customers save about $100 per cartridge on this machine and all products are made here in the USA. I look forward to helping anyone that I can and hope everyone has a great day.

 

[djhotwheel]

With my past experiences with Mimaki and Roland. Not recommended!
Too much of a chance of impurities getting into the ink lines to the dampers. Then if the formula of the ink does not flow properly it will eventually burn your heads up.

Cheers!

 

[gabagoo]

I have been running JetBest refillable cartridges for over 2 years now and they work great...errr well they did until I found out the so called permanent chip was not so permanent. 2.5 years in we had issues with the printer recognizing the cartridges, then the %^$% show started as my dealer was bringing in new permanent chips that were not working properly in my printer.

After 3 months of BS I finally switched out the permanent chips for "one time" chips and all is well again. The refillable cartridges have never given me any problems and the ink itself in my opinion is better than Mimaki OEM as I never seem to have banding issues anyhmore and the ink when dry is way more reslilient than OEM.

What I need to do now is find a new permanent chip that works!!

 

[JasonMeisnerSTS]

From our experience and from what we supply and inform our customers about, permanent chips typically last only 2 years so I would say you got the right life out of them. The only way to never need to change a chip is to get a decoder as well. We can supply one time chips, permanent chips(2 years), and decoders as well.

 

[premiercolour]

I am going to join the party guys.

Refillable cartridges: There are a few companies making these. We use a vendor from Korea. No issues as long as you don't take in and out all the time. 1. O ring on all Muth, Roland and Mimaki cartridge will be worn to leak ink while pulling out. 2. Smart card contact on a Mutoh refillable cartridge will wear to cause short to shut down the printer. If you happen to use refillable cartridges from a few Chinese vendor. They were made to last. Our Korean made refillable cartridge last as long as 4 years.

to Nate. Choose good 3rd party ink supplier will save tons of ink money. How do trade printers offer $1.00, $0.89. $0.79 even $0.59? They use aftermarket ink AND buy enough supplies for deep discount.

to Jordan. No on bulk ink. Leaks leaks leaks

to Jason. Correct on the permanent chip

Bordeaux Eco Solvent 1L Ink for Roland Eco Sol Max
http://www.premiercolour.com/bordea...oland-vp-sp-sc-xc-vs-bn-eco-sol-max-printers/

Refillable Cartridge made in Korea
http://www.premiercolour.com/refillable-cartridge-for-roland-mimaki-330ml/

More on the website
www.premiercolour.com

Happy Friday

- Francis

 

[SightLine]

I'd also add that bulk systems can be fine. However there are very very few that I'd suggest. The only ones I have had 100% success with are the very few that are 100% sealed setups that use ink bags. Mimaki's own MBIS is one, Bordeaux has one, and Triangle has one (their EZ Fill Pro which uses the 2 liter ink boxes). I'm sure there may be another out there but the vast majority are open type setups which cause pressure issues due to the level of the tanks or the float level setup needed which eventually leads to a number of problems like dripping heads, starvation (dropouts), etc. The open type setups are also messy requiring one to pour ink, exposing the ink to the air (which can and does add a bit of gas to the ink as well as dust). Bag type setups work just like your cartridges, the ink is in a sealed bad that collapses as the ink is used.

As other have mentioned though. If you are not running your machine multiple hours a day every day then you are probably better off with OEM inks or just a cartridge setup. Bulk systems can be pricey and it will then take time to recoup the cost in the lower ink prices. Permanent chips also as mentioned are not truly permanent. They will last a darn long time though. Generally a few years. Triangle has their optional EasyResetV doodad which I have on our machines with their 2 liter ink bag bulk setups. Just press a button and ink levels go back to 9. However even that does not run forever - about the same as permanent chips. First one we got went for about 3 years. That being said - I emailed Triangle when it stopped resetting, they next day aired a couple of sets of disposable chips and had me disconnect and send them the main little reset box. They reloaded it and sent it back. All no cost.

Brands - I have heard nothing but good about Bordeaux (I'd have no hesitation to use their inks), we have been using Triangle for a number of years with no problem, and I've heard quite a number of good comments about Jet Best as well. There are plenty of others as well but I think Bordeaux and Triangle are probably the most well known. At least here in the US. I'm sure there are some other good quality brands as well but I also know for certain that there are plenty of aftermarket inks that are terrible as well.

 

[bilge]

Hey does anyone have any success with refillable cartridges for their wide format printer? I have a Canon IPF8400s and would love to save money on ink.

I had IPF8300s. I think IPF8400s is next generation of that printer. Refillable cartridges should work on that printer fine. You can turn off the ink counter in service mode and even could use the chip from original cartridges. But you have to find good ink which can be mixed with original ink (aquois pigment). If you going to use dye ink you need to flush entire system, because subtanks hold significant amount of ink. Only issue using third party ink, auto head cleaning cycle frequency shortened i.e more often happens auto cleaning. I sold mine 2 years ago, because the printhead costs 450 bucks each, (PF-05, 6 channel per head, 2 heads in the printer) not last long with chinese ink.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

From our experience and from what we supply and inform our customers about, permanent chips typically last only 2 years so I would say you got the right life out of them. The only way to never need to change a chip is to get a decoder as well. We can supply one time chips, permanent chips(2 years), and decoders as well.

I been using permanent chips on my Mimaki jv3 for the past 6 years with no problems, the same on the refillable cartridges.

 

[JasonMeisnerSTS]

If you have permanent chips that last longer that 6 years, well that is great and you have definitely gotten your moneys worth then. I have always been a bigger fan of selling the finished products regardless because it prevents more possible user error and from a user going from OEM to aftermarket, you simply treat the printer and products as if you are using OEM inks. That is why Plug and Play has always been what I push for. some high volume end users who are tech savvy would warrant a bulk system, however, the typical price savings from OEM to our inks and the level of support is a substantial value in itself. if you go through 3-5 sets on your printer, it could be time to look at a bulk system.

I prefer the Mutoh system that we and mutoh sell which is a 1 liter bag which goes into the system. it keeps everything clean, not much margin for error, and as we degas our ink, it keeps the quality at optimum performance versus ink sitting in a CIS cartridge or in a reservoir.