Reflective Ground Graphics

[OADesign]

Hi All,
Hope you're having a good week (its still early yet).

I was hoping someone could recommend a product/film.

I have a client for which we do do a ton of Floor graphics for. After some trial and error, we've settle on a product called Panorama Walk&Wall. Works well. Prints OK w/ EcoSol (Although contour cutting is challenging). Wears ok. Removes OK (just requires a little TLC to make sure adhesive comes off). Textured and grippy. No lam required.
(No matter how this thread looks, I promise i'm not shilling for them lol)

Anyway to my actual question: My client has thrown us a twist. Now they want some floor graphics that are reflective. In my research, the only product that touts itself as a "Reflective ground graphic" is a product called "Grip" by Alumigraphics. I got a sample of the stuff, and the issue is, its not really "reflective" (envision me motioning air quotes). Not reflective like say, Orafol 5600 or some other engineer grade traffic film. Its really only shiny. So when they say "reflective" they mean like gloss white vinyl reflects light versus matte white vinyl. This wont work as we have also used a ton of Orafol 5600 for them. They kind of have an expectation of "reflectivity".

So here are the parameters I'm looking for:

Ground/Floor film
Reflective (For real)
EcoSol printable
Removable adhesive (concrete / asphalt / rough surface)
1 year (or so) longevity
Available in 54" x X' Rolls

Any Ideas?

Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[2B]

can you layer the material?

base, standard floor graphics
middle, reflective 5600
top, floor graphic lamination

 

[OADesign]

can you layer the material?

base, standard floor graphics
middle, reflective 5600
top, floor graphic lamination

Thanks 2B. I had considered that. But unfortunately for me, I'm kind of stuck in a spot with pricing. My current price point (read: price point my estimator has got us locked in to) is for the one layer. I may be able to pull off 2 layers. But there is not enough dough in this gig to go three layers. Personally I would walk away from this one. But this, is a good client for us. Just attempting to do this extra thing for them, without doing it for free.

 

[2B]

ah....yeah if you already have submitted the quote, then you are stuck.

maybe find the absolute cheapest reflective film, and layer that.
with them having seen what correct "reflective" is they are expecting that for the floor

 

[bannertime]

Unfortunately layers is about your only option. You could contact Jessup and see if they have what you need. I haven't seen anything like it though.

Also, neither WnW, Asphalt Art, or Alumigraphics are going to do well for more than 6 months. WnW is 3 months max anyway(outdoor horizontal).

Arlon recently released a new reflective wrap film that may work, other than all that, maybe 3M-780 with a floor lamination.

 

[ams]

Contour cut regular vinyl, then take a printable reflective vinyl and print/cut it out. Use transfer tape to overlay it onto the regular vinyl. This way when you apply it to the floor, you can remove it all in one piece so it doesn't break into pieces.

 

[ikarasu]

What kind of floor? Use a good thick floor overlam and any reflective if it's smooth.

3290 would be ok, albeit it a pain in the ass to remove when you want to remove it. Its cheap enough, and so long as is not like a concrete floor it should work.

680 is more expensive but would be better since it can be removed. I wouldn't put either down without a nice thick overlam like 3m 3647 .Should make it last a year .

 

[BigfishDM]

Hi All,
Hope you're having a good week (its still early yet).

I was hoping someone could recommend a product/film.

I have a client for which we do do a ton of Floor graphics for. After some trial and error, we've settle on a product called Panorama Walk&Wall. Works well. Prints OK w/ EcoSol (Although contour cutting is challenging). Wears ok. Removes OK (just requires a little TLC to make sure adhesive comes off). Textured and grippy. No lam required.
(No matter how this thread looks, I promise i'm not shilling for them lol)

Anyway to my actual question: My client has thrown us a twist. Now they want some floor graphics that are reflective. In my research, the only product that touts itself as a "Reflective ground graphic" is a product called "Grip" by Alumigraphics. I got a sample of the stuff, and the issue is, its not really "reflective" (envision me motioning air quotes). Not reflective like say, Orafol 5600 or some other engineer grade traffic film. Its really only shiny. So when they say "reflective" they mean like gloss white vinyl reflects light versus matte white vinyl. This wont work as we have also used a ton of Orafol 5600 for them. They kind of have an expectation of "reflectivity".

So here are the parameters I'm looking for:

Ground/Floor film
Reflective (For real)
EcoSol printable
Removable adhesive (concrete / asphalt / rough surface)
1 year (or so) longevity
Available in 54" x X' Rolls

Any Ideas?

Thanks in advance for your response.

Does Not exist for that time frame. You might get a few months warranty but nothing for a year. You only have a few options for asphalt, Asphalt Art by Jessup MFG and Alumigrip from Alumagraphics. Both are very expensive also. I deal the Jessup line if your interested. I also have a great alternative to Walk n Wall that is more competitively priced if your interested.

 

[JTBoh]

Thanks 2B. I had considered that. But unfortunately for me, I'm kind of stuck in a spot with pricing. My current price point (read: price point my estimator has got us locked in to) is for the one layer. I may be able to pull off 2 layers. But there is not enough dough in this gig to go three layers. Personally I would walk away from this one. But this, is a good client for us. Just attempting to do this extra thing for them, without doing it for free.

Say you got a sample of the material, and that it will not work for the specs that they need. Make a counter recommendation, and say this is the best product. Better to lose out on the job than lose money on a project. If it's a good customer, they will understand that you are trying to help them.

 

[White Haus]

Say you got a sample of the material, and that it will not work for the specs that they need. Make a counter recommendation, and say this is the best product. Better to lose out on the job than lose money on a project. If it's a good customer, they will understand that you are trying to help them.

Agreed. You're not going to find a solution without compromising either on the finish or price.

I would provide samples of the proper solution (floor vinyl/reflective/floor lam) and explain that it's going to be more than originally proposed. (You may be aware of this already, but there are a lot of laminates that aren't sold as (aka price isn't inflated) floor laminates, but meet ASTM ratings for slip resistance) First ones that comes to mind, if I remember correctly, are Avery DOL 3080 and DOL 2080 which are both very well priced and hold up well.

Otherwise you're going to be chasing a solution that won't fit their budget anyways.

Good luck with this project, let us know how it goes.

 

[AGCharlotte]

I've used the Grip before and it's definitely not a true reflective. It's made with foil so its more like a metallic "bright" effect than reflective.

 

[signmania]

Do they really need reflective FLOOR graphics, or do they think they do? Most reflective is retro-reflective, sending the light back to the source. So you'd either have to be shining a flashlight down on the decal as you're walking over it, or be in the exact right position for light from ceiling lights to bounce back at you. I've had clients insist on reflective signs mounted high on light poles in parking lots, even when car headlights won't be hitting them directly. The think the light on the pole will make the signs "light up", therefore be seen from a distance. Doesn't work that way. Just sayin...

 

[BigfishDM]

I use my holographic on floors for this look.

 

[OADesign]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for your replys / suggestions. As some of you have suggested, we are going to go back to the client consultation with this one. My estimator is having a meeting with the client later this week. We are going to pitch a couple of proven options rather that reinventing the wheel. We even thought to combine the Walk&wall product with maybe some conspicuity tape just to give them the "pop" they are looking for.

Does Not exist for that time frame. You might get a few months warranty but nothing for a year. You only have a few options for asphalt, Asphalt Art by Jessup MFG and Alumigrip from Alumagraphics. Both are very expensive also. I deal the Jessup line if your interested. I also have a great alternative to Walk n Wall that is more competitively priced if your interested.

BigFish, Can you PM me with detail on getting s sample of the Jessup product?

Do they really need reflective FLOOR graphics, or do they think they do? Most reflective is retro-reflective, sending the light back to the source. So you'd either have to be shining a flashlight down on the decal as you're walking over it, or be in the exact right position for light from ceiling lights to bounce back at you. I've had clients insist on reflective signs mounted high on light poles in parking lots, even when car headlights won't be hitting them directly. The think the light on the pole will make the signs "light up", therefore be seen from a distance. Doesn't work that way. Just sayin...

Signmania, its tough to explain, but this place is an a large out door mall type of property with tons of ambient lighting which provided enough light from all angles. Think like a smaller version of "LA LIVE" in Los Angeles

Thanks again everyone for your tips. We'll see how this goes.

 

[OADesign]

can you layer the material?

base, standard floor graphics
middle, reflective 5600
top, floor graphic lamination

Contour cut regular vinyl, then take a printable reflective vinyl and print/cut it out. Use transfer tape to overlay it onto the regular vinyl. This way when you apply it to the floor, you can remove it all in one piece so it doesn't break into pieces.

Just coming back to provide a conclusion to this one.

We ended up using a combination of the WnW with print cut 5600 on top as 2B and ams suggested. The 5600 grips the WnW pretty well.
For me this is NOT the ideal solution, but it works. But we had a meeting with our client (samples provided, drawbacks and failure points defined and explained, whilst a gaggle of onlookers looked on) and they agreed to the final product. Now we'll see how long and how well this thing holds up with time and tons of foot traffic.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[2B]

appreciate the update and will be curious to the longevity of this combination

 

[eahicks]

Do they really need reflective FLOOR graphics, or do they think they do? Most reflective is retro-reflective, sending the light back to the source. So you'd either have to be shining a flashlight down on the decal as you're walking over it, or be in the exact right position for light from ceiling lights to bounce back at you. I've had clients insist on reflective signs mounted high on light poles in parking lots, even when car headlights won't be hitting them directly. The think the light on the pole will make the signs "light up", therefore be seen from a distance. Doesn't work that way. Just sayin...

Totally agree with this. We talk customers out of reflective a lot because they seem to think they will magically be lit up at night. Most of the time being reflective is a waste.

 

[Gino]

I too, think the reflective is useless. The effects from those places you mentioned were all created by crazy lights and colors, let alone the intensity of those lights. I saw nothing reflective on the floors/pavements in any of the numerous pictures I saw. In fact, that could be very deceiving if used in large quantities and suddenly the floors blind ya from some abstruse light source.

 

[OADesign]

Happy Friday guys,

Before this thread turns into something else, know that you're preaching to the choir. I felt the same way when my estimator/sales guy brought this project in.
We spend a lot of time in heated "What the pluck were you thinking, we cant make that" meetings. I fought this one vigorously (envision me with a scowl and shaking my balled fist). I often say, "But we are the experts. We tell them the proper way to do X. Not the other way around..." But it was already sold, to a really good client that pays us well to "make it work".
The nature of my position here is to "figure it out" most of the time. And although I have grown many more gray hairs since I started, it works.
For the record, this is not intended to light up like say, a highway sign shining back at the headlights on a big rig. But just enough to pull your eyes down to some directional information. And there is enough ambient/spot light to make this work.