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Reflective Lettering Lifting

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lkt1954

New Member
As the title says we have reflective lettering lifting (not sticking) on a police car for the second time. We are using oracal 5600, printing ,drying for 24 hours, laminating and installing. The first time this happened the car was fresh from the body shop having all the old lettering removed & buffed, cleaned it with just alchol and installed all the lettering and the large POLICE letters lifted up. Second time removed all lettering myself, cleaned with adhesive remover, washed, cleaned with simple green, then cleaned with alcohol and installed the lettering and used edge sealer on it. Today get a call that it's doing the same thing. Both installs were done inside a shop that was around 50 degrees in temperature and this is a black car. We have done two white pickups the same way and no problems to date.

Any idea what gives here? All the vehicles to start with came straight from the body shop to us (no painting- removing & buffing out old faded lettering). Do I need to go over this car with wax & grease remover or what?

Thanks
Larry
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
Anything from the bodyshop needs wax & grease remover ran over it first. Maybe twice. Then get the alcohol out & hit it again.

I have had trouble recently with using 5600 on a couple vehicles, had a couple spots tunneling (couple days later) when not post-heated really well; went back to staying with 3M 280i; no problems ever with that.
 
BobM

BobM

New Member
+ one on the cleaning. Body shops use some pritty powerful compounds and waxes in their cleanup work to help make it look like new. I would wash it two times with Rapid Prep. Then a third time with Rapid Tac II. Not had a single problem since I started using these products. Scrub hard and turn the paper towels alot.
 
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lkt1954

New Member
Ok here is an update. They brought the car in this afternoon and here is what's going on: leading edge of the E on passengers door is lifting up, where we split the lettering between the doors and wrapped around the door edge has come loose and the far edge of the E on the drivers door is lifting. Talked to a tech at Fellers and found out that oracal 210 laminate doesn't wrap very well and the reflective should have been cut flush with the door edge. Waiting on some 3m edge tape, then I am going to try and get the wrap on the door edges loose and cut flush and use the 3m tape and use the tape on the edges of the E's (or so I think). Will try and clean as best I can. I hope I can salvage this and not have to redo.

First off thanks for all the information. Any other tips to help salvage this?

Thanks
Larry
 
GAC05

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
I think you should have used a better laminate than the intermediate 210.
It is fine for flat stuff but not recommended for curvy stuff on vehicles.

wayne k
guam usa
 
SightLine

SightLine

║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
JoshLoring said:
+1

I use 290G on 5600
Click to expand...

++1

Same - Although we use oracal 290GF. My theory is the optically clear helps maintain the reflectivity plus it costs us the same as regular 290 and works just as well for pretty much anything elase calling for cast gloss lam - great all purpose lam. NEVER use calendered laminate on cast or reflective. The cheap lam shrinks at a much greater rate than the vinyl underneath. Pretty much begging for edges to pull up.
 
letterman7

letterman7

New Member
all star signs said:
you should always allow the paint to cure or the chemical/fumes will get under the adhesive and make the vinyl lift.
Click to expand...

Um, no. Quite the opposite, in fact. Had a customer just last week bring his truck in for lettering. Had to reposition one of the graphics on the door - usually just a quick "tug and pop" (and, it was 44 degrees outside) - and the vinyl wasn't letting go no way, no how. When I mentioned this never happens my customer piped up with 'oh, it was just painted the day before yesterday'... and he had buffed it out that morning. Basecoat/clearcoat system. It took two hours to strip the door.

Sorry.. :thread
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
lkt1954 said:
Ok here is an update. They brought the car in this afternoon and here is what's going on: leading edge of the E on passengers door is lifting up, where we split the lettering between the doors and wrapped around the door edge has come loose and the far edge of the E on the drivers door is lifting. Talked to a tech at Fellers and found out that oracal 210 laminate doesn't wrap very well and the reflective should have been cut flush with the door edge. Waiting on some 3m edge tape, then I am going to try and get the wrap on the door edges loose and cut flush and use the 3m tape and use the tape on the edges of the E's (or so I think). Will try and clean as best I can. I hope I can salvage this and not have to redo.

First off thanks for all the information. Any other tips to help salvage this?

Thanks
Larry
Click to expand...

This is your problem; the Oracal Reflective does NOT like to wrap corners at all. Not gonna ever be happy and stay down well. Prep is not the issue.

Go ahead and bit the bullet and eat this one & replace it with 3M 280i. It's not much more expensive & is 10X easier to install. Just went through the same exact thing... :(
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
And is there a reason you didn't use an edge sealer on the part where you cut the letter and wrapped it around the edge of the door?
 
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lkt1954

New Member
Lots of good information here and a real learning curve as well. TyrantDesigner we used an edge sealer pen to seal all the edges. Looks like the laminate is my main problem. I am going to try and lift the edge wrapped around the door, cut it even with the edge and use 3m sealer tape on it.

Thanks to all again.

Larry
 
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lkt1954

New Member
Ok time to ask my dumb question for the day. Will the 3m edge sealer tape work if I can get the door edges up to cut flush and even dumber exactly who do you use the 3m tape? Jus put it partly over the reflective the wrap around the edge? Will it work and look good on the edge of the E's lifting? I really want to save this job and not have to deal with the 3rd times a charm.

Thanks
Larry
 
jfiscus

jfiscus

Rap Master
Reflective can't be lifted & re-positioned, it will be "zebra-striped". You can cut it flush and take your chances, it may stay down, but if it has lifted at all & you try to get it to stick back down chances are that the adhesive is no good in that area.

If this is for a police dept, DO IT RIGHT, or you will not see the rest of the fleet they're buying this year in your shop. The guy driving the car will down-talk your company to the rest of the dept & they will take them elsewhere.
 
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humpsigns

New Member
On all your reflective use 3m. I have use just about all of them to try to keep price down, but it will cost you in the long run and the customer will not care that you gave him a good price..all he wants is his car-truck relettered free. Even if its been on for 3-4 years
 
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Northern Design

Northern Design Graphics
intermediate 210 is a big mistake, did you print dark colors then contour cut on the dark colors, this will lift every time. You need .200 contour min
 
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