Reflective Sign/Billboard how to

[Stacey K]

I posted about a sign/billboard a while back. He wants to do a 100% reflective sign/billboard that's on the road. The size is 12' long by about 85" tall. It's there already with a plywood backing. It just needs the sign boards.
The red part is going to be a separate sign that changes with the seasons.

Do they make 12' sign boards? should I use for the top, 3 vertical 48"x96" (cut to vertical size)? 3mm or 6mm acm? Then print panels on reflective to put on them at my shop then he just installs?

 

[Jason Thomas]

I would think that three vertical panels, 48x85 would be easier to install than 12' long panels. Print on reflective, laminate, mount to Alumalite. Alumalite is more costly, but more rigid and lighter weight than ACM. Then make the red one as a separate strip.

 

[Stacey K]

I would think that three vertical panels, 48x85 would be easier to install than 12' long panels. Print on reflective, laminate, mount to Alumalite. Alumalite is more costly, but more rigid and lighter weight than ACM. Then make the red one as a separate strip.

Perfect! Would I do 3 or 6mm Alumalite?

 

[Jason Thomas]

I think 1/4" (6mm) is more common. I believe you can get 12' panels if you did want to seam it horizontally. I only said vertical because I am usually the only one installing and I don't trust myself to hold my grip on a 12' sheet on a ladder in the wind!

 

[JBurton]

Don't they sell reflective on acm already? If so, I'd print on clear, mount that to reflective acm, save the gut punch that is the wasted reflective if you have issues or are running the latex... poking around my main distributors, I didn't see reflective acm, I guess I'm misremembering?
I'd panel it vertically though, as much as I'd rather do the colors as their own panels, it makes install harder unless it's right on the ground.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

GSG sells 12' wide ACM

 

[JBurton]

GSG sells 12' wide ACM

I don't see any on their website... Have you tried the new USA made acm panels they're selling? That stuff can be bent in half and won't tear, scoring it only puts a bend in the panel. I delaminated the face off of one to compare to whatever cheap stuff I had, same thickness, but it was as rigid as cardstock and the cheap stuff was as stiff as foil.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I don't see any on their website... Have you tried the new USA made acm panels they're selling? That stuff can be bent in half and won't tear, scoring it only puts a bend in the panel. I delaminated the face off of one to compare to whatever cheap stuff I had, same thickness, but it was as rigid as cardstock and the cheap stuff was as stiff as foil.

That's how I cut them... score with a blade and snap. Sounds like that won't work on the American stuff.

 

[jcskikus]

I wouldn't print any of it. Out in the sun all day, even the white reflective is going to begin to fade in a matter of months. I've been seeing this on the cop cars I've been doing this past year, and I'm using 3M. Use 680CR blue or light blue and red or ruby red with the white and black reflective. With the color deep into the vinyl, the upper half that's left out year-round will last longer. I'd secure the lower red symmetrically with fasteners and use both sides spinning it out each season.
Color 680CR is cheaper and you no lamination. Better to pay $4±/sq ft that closer to $6/sq ft, and have to take the time to print and laminate.

 

[Stacey K]

Since I waited until the last minute to do this I ordered 3 vertical panels of 6mm Alumalite.

Jcskikis - it faces North so I should be OK with the print...I've never printed on reflective so I'm going to try it out. It's off from the road about 70' so I don't think the seams will be much of an issue...hopefully at least. I did look for this light blue vinyl and I could not find any in reflective. I've gotten some other stuff printed for his dump trucks and it looks real good so I'm hoping this works or it's an expensive mistake!

 

[JBurton]

That's how I cut them... score with a blade and snap. Sounds like that won't work on the American stuff.

Nope. I tried showing the new guy how to cut the drops off the cnc, 2" wide strip, scored, bent, bent, bent, bent, rescored, bent, bent, bent, skillsaw. Best way to trim down that stuff is a shear or tin snips.

 

[jcskikus]

Since I waited until the last minute to do this I ordered 3 vertical panels of 6mm Alumalite.

Jcskikis - it faces North so I should be OK with the print...I've never printed on reflective so I'm going to try it out. It's off from the road about 70' so I don't think the seams will be much of an issue...hopefully at least. I did look for this light blue vinyl and I could not find any in reflective. I've gotten some other stuff printed for his dump trucks and it looks real good so I'm hoping this works or it's an expensive mistake!

3M 680CR comes in two (2) blues: Light Blue and Blue. Attached is the best way to show the shades in PMS colors. What reflective are yyo looking to print this on?

 

[ikarasu]

I wouldn't print any of it. Out in the sun all day, even the white reflective is going to begin to fade in a matter of months. I've been seeing this on the cop cars I've been doing this past year, and I'm using 3M. Use 680CR blue or light blue and red or ruby red with the white and black reflective. With the color deep into the vinyl, the upper half that's left out year-round will last longer. I'd secure the lower red symmetrically with fasteners and use both sides spinning it out each season.
Color 680CR is cheaper and you no lamination. Better to pay $4±/sq ft that closer to $6/sq ft, and have to take the time to print and laminate.

Why would white fade? It's naturally white... Generally white would yellow when it's in the sun / going bad. We've removed a lot of cop cars that have been out for 10+ years, and the white turns to yellow.

I don't think this would fade with the right print / material / overlam... 3M warranties traffic reflectives printed on a Latex printer for 8-12 years now... I know 680 / whatever being used isn't traffic... but a cast vinyl / overlam should last at least a decade in Wisconsin, if not 2.


Personally I'd print it on Nikkalite and laminate it with 8518 - Would be much, much cheaper than 680 - 680 is great and we use dozens of rolls a year... But its removable, as well as conformable... mainly meant for vehicles, for something like a billboard I'd much rather use a perm vinyl - 3M shot themselves in the foot when they discontinued 3290... We go through hundreds of rolls of nikkalite a year now because of it, They were banking on everyone switching over to AEGP... and I'm sure we're not the onlyones who didn't do that.

For flat services / signage, nikkalite cant be beat - For everything else... 680. (680 is about 5x the price, and IIRC it's the same warranty / life span as nikkalite)

 

[jcskikus]

Why would white fade? It's naturally white... Generally white would yellow when it's in the sun / going bad. We've removed a lot of cop cars that have been out for 10+ years, and the white turns to yellow.

I don't think this would fade with the right print / material / overlam... 3M warranties traffic reflectives printed on a Latex printer for 8-12 years now... I know 680 / whatever being used isn't traffic... but a cast vinyl / overlam should last at least a decade in Wisconsin, if not 2.


Personally I'd print it on Nikkalite and laminate it with 8518 - Would be much, much cheaper than 680 - 680 is great and we use dozens of rolls a year... But its removable, as well as conformable... mainly meant for vehicles, for something like a billboard I'd much rather use a perm vinyl - 3M shot themselves in the foot when they discontinued 3290... We go through hundreds of rolls of nikkalite a year now because of it, They were banking on everyone switching over to AEGP... and I'm sure we're not the onlyones who didn't do that.

For flat services / signage, nikkalite cant be beat - For everything else... 680. (680 is about 5x the price, and IIRC it's the same warranty / life span as nikkalite)

Why use 3M 680 or 680CR? Nikkalite is an air-egress as well. She stated that the lower half would be changed out seasonally (every 3-4 months), so something that would come easily would probably be more preferable. Also, I didn't say the white yellows quickly. It has actually been "graying" or looking darker after being out in the sun for several weeks. Furthermore, white reflective isn't white, it's light gray. Arlon SLX reflective is the closest to white, but m-f'er to get to stick to a surface unless you use infrared lamps.
My reasoning for using colored vinyl is that if one prints, you need to factor in the cost of laminate, it's more than just cutting. Also it adds steps and time not needed and digs into the profit margin. If she wanted to, she could just use 3M 680, no Controltac™, which is 10% cheaper than CR and just do the white lettering on the red in 680CR so it can be changed out. As she said, it's 25' from the road and probably 10' in the air, no one will see any "ghosting".