Reflective text and background?

[Signed Out]

Customer is requesting high intensity reflective vinyl for parking lot signs. If the sign has white HIS would you want to do the black text in reflective? They weren't specific on this and I don't do a lot of signs like this so was just wondering if there is a standard.

Thanks

 

[StarSign]

Nope, plus black reflective reflects back white

 

[Marlene]

Nope, plus black reflective reflects back white

+1

 

[Signed Out]

Thanks, I didn't think so either. How about a lighter color like a kelly green against a HI white background. Thinking that should be done in reflective.

 

[StarSign]

No for a parking sign if the background is reflective that is all it needs to be.

 

[Rick]

What type of parking lot sign? The legal type like accessible and other code signs? or wayfinding, lot ID's?

A typical street sign using the latest MUTCD must have a reflective background and copy. If you have seen a newer street sign, you will notice that the whole sign will reflect light, and still be legible. Quite a few are screenprinted with translucent inks or the 3M translucent vinyl. But generally, black on white is not completely reflective.

 

[Billct2]

Either the background is reflective or the text, not both.

 

[StarSign]

Standard:
02 Regulatory, warning, and guide signs
and object markers shall be retroreflective
(see Section 2A.08) or illuminated to show
the same shape and similar color by both
day and night, unless otherwise provided
in the text discussion in this Manual for a
particular sign or group of signs.

Standard:
14 The Street Name sign shall be retroreflective or illuminated to show the same shape and similar color
both day and night. The color of the legend (and border, if used) shall contrast with the background color
of the sign.

So you should use the EC film

 

[Rick]

I love general code references, there is much more to it than that casual copy and paste... Like all bloated government standards, there is a standard for maintaining that "similar color"

I would look at

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2a.htm#table2A03

Know your retro...

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/roadway_dept/night_visib/retrotoolkit/

 

[StarSign]

Both good sites. If the sign is yellow and black in the day time it need to look yellow and black at night, same with green, red, blue.

 

[StarSign]

and yes it was a cut and paste from the latest 2009 MUTCD as stated above.

 

[Rick]

Both good sites. If the sign is yellow and black in the day time it need to look yellow and black at night, same with green, red, blue.

Yes, AND there are clear standards for that, those standards are maintained by ASTM, and occasionally ANSI/ISEA.

Simply stating that the colors have to be maintained is only a small of making a compliant sign, by using materials within the guidelines and within specified standards, really makes our job easier. That is why both the background and the legend are reflective. During the CLEARVIEW study, it shows in quite a few instances that letters were actually harder to read when they were not reflective. the background would blow out the copy. Not the most interesting reading (and seminars I went to), but something i was forced to learn at a former place of employment.

 

[StarSign]

Yes much of the reading can drive you insane, and trying to breakdown every line of the MUTCD will drive you crazzy. In the sign making process you wouldn't put Red HIP reflective on a White HIP background to make a sign.

 

[Rick]

Yes much of the reading can drive you insane, and trying to breakdown every line of the MUTCD will drive you crazzy. In the sign making process you wouldn't put Red HIP reflective on a White HIP background to make a sign.

Part of my job is to help shopping centers that have large vehicular wayfinding to maintain the MUTCD standards because of liability issues, i have also design quite a few city wayfinding and street name sign programs so I sometimes have to make reports, show them specs, make material boards and talk to other consultants... makes my head numb... don't get me started on ADA

On the HIP, you wouldn't because it would be a waste of money because the Translucent EC film is cheaper than double layering HIP. If it maintained the contrast standard, it would technically be "compliant" but a waste of money.

The reason I ask what type of sign is...

Having been on sign forums for over 12 years, a generalized statement of parking lot signs means squat. What if they making a sign that is designey (not off the shelf)... say the legal notice at the entries with some accessible or ISA on it, or accessible parking signs, then they would need some blue on the ISA at the very least, or a Fire code, they may require red... so the question is a little vague.

 

[StarSign]

True a sign that says Welcome to Wonderland Shopping Center is much different then a No Parking, or Fire Lane sign. I deal with that on a daily basis, the good 'ol I need a cheap sign that's compliant, but I don't want it reflective and it needs to be a 5x8

 

[StarSign]

Or my favorite the 11 MPH sign

 

[Rick]

True a sign that says Welcome to Wonderland Shopping Center is much different then a No Parking, or Fire Lane sign. I deal with that on a daily basis, the good 'ol I need a cheap sign that's compliant, but I don't want it reflective and it needs to be a 5x8

Exactly, if this guy called me up and said I need a reflective sign with black letters on it, you have to know what type of sign it is, where it is mounted, and the copy to see if it's actually required to meet some standard, before I can determine what material to recommend.