Refunding a deposit......from 5 years ago????

[amy s.]

Just want to know what's the consensus. I received a deposit for a job ($1400.00) for a neighborhood assoc.that had a wayyyy too complicated design for a sandblasted sign. I told the customer this and he said he liked the price, would make the deposit now since they had the money from the city now and needed to use it, and he would get back with the other people involved and come up with a simplified design. I was very busy, time went by, he did not return, then a different person called about the signs...4 years later. I explained the situation .....from 4 years ago now....honestly, couldn't remember if I'd even actually received a deposit or not by that time.

Bottom line, I refunded half ($700.00) and told her I would work the balance off in sign work of their choice. I'm not doing as much sign work now, only part time. Does that seem fair? What is the usual practice? It has now been 5 years. Appreciate your opinion.

 

[Mosh]

NO WAY! That is the reason for the deposit, in case they bail on the project!
That $1,400 was yours, if they didn't go ahead that is their problem.

 

[Gino]

Something like this shouldn't be left to human memory. You should have written documentation of everything that transpired. If you haven't done anything or bought any supplies , I would think returning the whole amount would be the proper thing to do, or show them what you have in stock under their name. However, after 5 years, I guess we all tend to spend that which isn't ours in hopes it will soon come to fruition. Well, it didn't. If they can deal with this new turn of events, then go for it. Otherwise, be prepared for them to ask for the rest of it back. I doubt they'll ask if the check has made any interest, but be prepared for anything when it comes to government.

Good luck..............
​

 

[Pat Whatley]

.honestly, couldn't remember if I'd even actually received a deposit or not by that time.

You figured that out before you refunded it didn't you?

I've got one of those jobs floating out there. Had a customer pre-pay for a rather large order for Gemini letters. He knew his size and copy but wanted to take my color chips so he could look at the colors against the wall (I had three sets so it wasn't a problem).

Two weeks later I called him and left a message. Left a couple more over the next couple of weeks.

It's been three years now, his phone is disconnected, and doing a google search for the office name he ordered comes up blank.

Not sure what I'm going to do when/if he ever shows back up.

 

[TXFB.INS]

surely you have some sort of documentation, otherwise how do you do your taxes?

as mosh said, a deposit is NOT refundable. if you do anything then that amount is used towards another sign

 

[amy s.]

You figured that out before you refunded it didn't you?

I've got one of those jobs floating out there. Had a customer pre-pay for a rather large order for Gemini letters. He knew his size and copy but wanted to take my color chips so he could look at the colors against the wall (I had three sets so it wasn't a problem).

Two weeks later I called him and left a message. Left a couple more over the next couple of weeks.

It's been three years now, his phone is disconnected, and doing a google search for the office name he ordered comes up blank.

Not sure what I'm going to do when/if he ever shows back up.

Yes, I asked for a copy of the cancelled check. I found the original invoice with the description of the number, type, size, price of the signs. I would certainly have declared the $1400. as income but, come on....5 years ago....sorry, I don't know about you guys, but I can't lay my hands on that information instantly. It was easier to ask for a copy of the cancelled check. The project did not go forward because they were to get back to me and didn't. I want to do the right thing, that's why I gave them $700.00. I think they should bear some of the pain here and be willing to accept sign work for the balance...just my opinion.

 

[fresh]

I would have said no way to a refund.

 

[SignManiac]

Your offer is more than fair. They would be SOL after five years with me. They're the ones who blew it, not you.
Funny thing, my business partner has sold two turnkey franchise stores costing $150,000.00 each, and the franchisors both abandoned the original thought of running a business and walked clean away. Never asking for a dime back. Who the hell walks away from $150k without even asking about a refund?

 

[Gino]

Not to start an argument, but to have a discussion about this......


Why, if someone gave you money in good faith and you did nothing, would you expect to keep it regardless of how long it is, if you haven't done a thing, bought any supplies or made any attempt to see things through in a timely manner ?? This question is not geared towards the OP, but all those in favor of keeping the money and not giving it back, whatsoever.

Of course, I would want to keep it, but for honesty's sake, why would you feel entitled to it ?? How does that show up on your tax returns ?? Someone handed you money for nothing and you just said thanks ??

Seriously, this is a good topic for many reasons which I believe go far beyond a 'forgotten' sign.

 

[player]

The association may have many members, and the goodwill you should receive for returning ALL their money might turn out to be worth more than the $1,500.

 

[paul luszcz]

Not to go all CPA on you, but if you take a deposit, you create a liability for that amount. If the deposit is described (in writing) as non-refundable, then you need not repay that liability with cash. You do, however, still have the liability until the work is performed. It doesn't go away.

So either do the work (which you're obligated to do) or return the money because it's easier.

If they accept anything less (and half is certainly less) that's great. But although you don't owe them half the cash, you still owe them half the work.

 

[Jillbeans]

The $1400 should be applied to the purchase of the new sign, not have half refunded.
You need to tell them that the price of the sign has increased in 5 years by $xx but you owe them a sign.

Looking over at my job board, I see that I have a deposit of $50 towards boat lettering from 2006. Paid in full and cut out lettering ready to apply since 2009, a design deposit from 2011 for $200 which the guy still can't decide what he wants, and a $100 design deposit from last year, different guy, can't decide what he wants.

I keep track of everything, I put everything in writing.
Maybe the new members of the association will be easier to work with on the design...maybe not.
Love....Jill

 

[bob]

Not to go all CPA on you, but if you take a deposit, you create a liability for that amount. If the deposit is described (in writing) as non-refundable, then you need not repay that liability with cash. You do, however, still have the liability until the work is performed. It doesn't go away.

So either do the work (which you're obligated to do) or return the money because it's easier.

If they accept anything less (and half is certainly less) that's great. But although you don't owe them half the cash, you still owe them half the work.

Exactly so.

 

[fresh]

I'd have a hard time refunding it because its been so long. Although plenty of people would wish it so, I'm not a bank. I'd make them a sign at 2014 prices, and obviously credit them $1400, but I would not refund anything.

That is why we collect deposits. What if Amy S. turned down another job because she had this one on deck? The deposit holds your spot in the queue.

 

[FireSprint.com]

We would return it minus any real expenses if they were more than $100. If we had some paper and a a few minutes in the job, we would return the whole thing. It's good will and the right way to do business.

I agree with everything Gino has said so far.

 

[2B]

Not to go all CPA on you, but if you take a deposit, you create a liability for that amount. If the deposit is described (in writing) as non-refundable, then you need not repay that liability with cash. You do, however, still have the liability until the work is performed. It doesn't go away.

So either do the work (which you're obligated to do) or return the money because it's easier.

If they accept anything less (and half is certainly less) that's great. But although you don't owe them half the cash, you still owe them half the work.

+2

Also as Jill stated re-quote using current prices and then you are good to go

 

[Marlene]

Not to start an argument, but to have a discussion about this......


Why, if someone gave you money in good faith and you did nothing, would you expect to keep it regardless of how long it is, if you haven't done a thing, bought any supplies or made any attempt to see things through in a timely manner ?? This question is not geared towards the OP, but all those in favor of keeping the money and not giving it back, whatsoever.

Of course, I would want to keep it, but for honesty's sake, why would you feel entitled to it ?? How does that show up on your tax returns ?? Someone handed you money for nothing and you just said thanks ??

Seriously, this is a good topic for many reasons which I believe go far beyond a 'forgotten' sign.​

first off why on earth didn't you stay on top of this 5 years ago? phone calls, e-mails, letters in writing? as far as records go, you have to keep detailed records for, I think, 7 years so it should have been something you could look up in your records. how did you close out your books with this on it? as far as being entitled, if you did nothing on the job, no design work, no materials, nothing out of pocket, it should have been returned and the job voided. if you did something like a site survey or anything else that was to be billed, I could see you keeping the payment for that out of the deposit.

 

[feuquay]

the purpose of a deposit is to cover initial expenses and give you partial protection over the customer never showing up to finish the deal. it is meant as a token of good faith because the meaning of a handshake has long been forgotten. you are entitled to compensate yourself for expenses as another poster has said but if you collected and did nothing I am not sure why they should "share the pain" I am not sure what pain there could possibly be unless you spent what was not yours.
my two cents...

 

[Doyle]

first off why on earth didn't you stay on top of this 5 years ago? phone calls, e-mails, letters in writing? as far as records go, you have to keep detailed records for, I think, 7 years so it should have been something you could look up in your records. how did you close out your books with this on it? as far as being entitled, if you did nothing on the job, no design work, no materials, nothing out of pocket, it should have been returned and the job voided. if you did something like a site survey or anything else that was to be billed, I could see you keeping the payment for that out of the deposit.

My thoughts as well.... if a customer gave me a $1400 deposit on a project, I'm pretty sure I would pester the hell out of them relentlessly to keep that project moving forward. I cannot see myself letting it go for more than a few months, but 5 years??? Also, regardless of what everyone else on this thread is saying, if I hadn't purchased any materials or invested any time into this project, I would feel obligated to refund the entire deposit for my own peace of mind.

How do you let a job like this linger for 5 years?

 

[binki]

Statute of Limitations here is 2 years on a verbal and 4 on a written contract.