Inks
New Member
No one is disputing your experience or reference point. The OP is asking for a short term removable. Several manufacturers have a solution, not only 3M. 3M makes fantastic products but they are not the one and only.
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Removable Cast Vinyl?
- Thread starter SCDesign
- Start date
Decal Removal Expert
New Member
I was not now or ever concerned with my experience being disputed. That aside, I have always wondered at the concept of installing less than top quality vinyl on anything that will have to be removed(vehicles, trailers, windows, floors, etc.). The premise is that the customer always stays on the timeline that is targeted in the beginning. This premise is almost always false, even with my own fleet. However, IMO the best customers always return, if still viable, when quality is the first consideration in service. I still have yet to experience any other vinyl that makes removal more economical than 3M 180mC Cast Sign Vinyl, be it 1 year or 20 years old. When it matters, cost should never be an issue. When it doesn't matter, there are always perfectly good alternatives that can be compared.
hybriddesign
owner Hybrid Design
General formulations has a thin semi-gloss anti-slip laminate that we use a lot. It tears up a bit faster since it's thin but it looks good and we use it on decals going on textured surfaces since it seems to let the decal mold to the floor contours a bit more. Or at least we think it does... Been doing this on top of their high tack media for outdoor floor markings and it works well. Sorry, can't remember the product# but it's the thinner semi-gloss that they sell
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
All this about removability nonsense is much ado about nothing. All of the major lines are very similar, you select what you want to use based on a lot of factors that benefit you like price, availability, ease of install, quality of the distributor, how it prints etc. Ease of removability is not majorly different between brands and honestly that's the customers baby to deal with. You can't control what they wash the vehicle with, where they store it, what region of the country they are in, how long they leave the graphics on etc and those are what really make a difference in how it comes off. Push come to shove, it can all be removed, even bottom of the barrel material. It's nothing to cry over.
It's pretty silly how much thought has went into some stupid cut vinyl going on a van. You could even use 651 and it'll be fine. I mean come on, cut vinyl wasn't invented yesterday. People have been using it and removing it from vehicles with no major issues for like the past 30+ years, well before all this fancy new "removable" type wrap material ever hit the market.
Decal Removal Expert
New Member
Never a big deal....Until it is. And when it is, it really, really is. I have actually had customers who literally did cry.
The forum is here, unless I am mistaken and apologize ahead of time, is to share knowledge of our industry successes and difficulties, as well as solve common obstacles and create a flow of information to help navigate the challenges in our industry. The topic did originate with which cut vinyl to install on a van, and it didn't seem silly or stupid for the person who was asking for help. As a self employed individual, every issue is important because my customers relationship with me directly impacts our continued existence. So then it stands to reason that every bit of knowledge that I can gather about my trade will assist my customers to experience a higher level of service. Now that is my opinion, it may or may not be true.
The OP question did evolve to a deeper discussion about removability of various brands. But that is the nature of discussions between professionals who share the same field of study. It is unfortunate that they sometimes devolve into feckless opinions that misdirect helpful counsel and learning.
"Ease of removability is not majorly different between brands.." or "People have been using it and removing it from vehicles with no major issues for like the past 30+ years" is entirely inaccurate and anyone who has had to perform this service would not make this statement. Nor is there anything Honest about letting the customer deal with my lack of knowledge at their expense. Either you are angry with me or you endorse the type of philosophy that continues to erode the integrity of our industry. If I have insulted or slighted you, contact me privately and I will gladly make right my wrong. But if your business philosophy is profit before service, I suggest that the road is more successful when service is placed first.
True that vinyl has been utilized for a multitude of medias since 1937, the first being 3M engineers. But it is equally true, as in any industry that innovation will occur to offer more options, sometimes better and sometimes not. With the introductions of Glossy Calendared, the many variations of Reflective, Metallic and specialty films, my customers are tasked with navigating the cumulative effects of our growing industry and multitude of options. I am my customers advocate and my continued learning enables me to assist a broader base of clients.
Removability is the exact opposite of nonsense, it is where the topic originated and why there are innovations that are termed "removable".
It is so serious, that because of the difficulty, I helped pioneer the field of Vinyl removal and after a period made it our specialty that is today the only service we offer. Now our topic has truly developed into more than where it began and I hope I have not overstepped with my literary zest.
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Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I have to remove this in a few weeks... wish I could call the decal remover man
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
No, I just don't think all this drama is needed in business. Customers don't want to listen to someone ramble on about crap they don't care about. You give the condensed version if they want to hear it or you just do the job using your professional knowledge because that's what they expect and there's no good reason to waste your time or theirs. If you have to explain stuff this in depth to a customer, it's probably because they got a bad vibe and are feeling you out.
I did not make any endorsement on using the wrong product in the wrong application either. Apples to apples, Arlon slx or Avery 1105 will remove just about the same as ij180. We all take off decals, removal is monkey work, not rocket science. That's why nobody puts their best guy on it.
Boudica
I'm here for Educational Purposes
Steam. ...and a lot of hot air from decal removal experts.
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Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Like Notareal said, grunts do this work. I will have my brother in law do the removal.
Decal Removal Expert
New Member
Is that gray stuff behind decal a block out layer? would love to hear how it went. I have seen material look like a nightmare and the come off easy and look easy then turn into a nightmare. That picture appears as if the majority is the laminate cracking and the vinyl the secondary cracks.
Decal Removal Expert
New Member
as a grunt I thank you for your support!
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Oh boy, here we go again. It seems we have a communication dilemma.
Our problems, experience, ups & downs are of no need for our customers to know. They look to us for advice, not definitions or excuses. They want the job done and trying to spout off the industry's standards to them is just pure nonsense. If you like bragging about all the things you know and dazzling people with that..... fine and dandy. If you feel betrayed or slighted, try to remember this........ it's only words and only you can make them feel hurtful towards oneself. Otherwise, just state facts to us and move on. Cripes, this thread is over 1/2 a year old.
Our problems, experience, ups & downs are of no need for our customers to know. They look to us for advice, not definitions or excuses. They want the job done and trying to spout off the industry's standards to them is just pure nonsense. If you like bragging about all the things you know and dazzling people with that..... fine and dandy. If you feel betrayed or slighted, try to remember this........ it's only words and only you can make them feel hurtful towards oneself. Otherwise, just state facts to us and move on. Cripes, this thread is over 1/2 a year old.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
I don't trust people that talk too much.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
wha........ ?? Now you're quoting yourself and agreeing ?? What's your game ??as a grunt I thank you for your support!
Decal Removal Expert
New Member
What do you mean?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Try reading what I posted, compare it to what you said and how you quoted yourself and patted yourself on the back. Unless you go and change sh!t around, you either cannot read or have no idea who you're quoting. That's the game...... it's like a guessing game. You throw enough crap at the fan and hope that something sticks, huh ?? Just get real and stop faking it.
AGCharlotte
New Member
looks like he misquoted there Gino... the quote should have been to Texas' referral of grunts... I don't think he was trying to pat himself on the back. Though... I do think he's got a 3M bias. Saying all other products are inferior to 3M is a bit misguided. Avery and Arlon definitely have products that are comparable to 3M in ALL aspects and are not "cheaper" alternatives.
Hi I was wandering what’s the difference between ij180cv3 and ij180mc?
CanuckSigns
Active Member
3M removes so well, I've even had it peel itself off...
Back on topic, for floor decals, I've had good luck with Arlon 4600lx, paired with Drytac emerytex laminate. The emerytex has more anti slip ratings than most others, and it's reasonably priced.
If removability is your top concern, drytac also makes a great product called retac, it's the only stuff I've ever used that will never leave adhesive behind
Back on topic, for floor decals, I've had good luck with Arlon 4600lx, paired with Drytac emerytex laminate. The emerytex has more anti slip ratings than most others, and it's reasonably priced.
If removability is your top concern, drytac also makes a great product called retac, it's the only stuff I've ever used that will never leave adhesive behind