Researching Digital Printers

[Batch]

Our company has had mixed results outsourcing digiprints. I want to look into purchasing the equipment to do this in house.

My boss seems to think he wants something that he could do a 4' X 8' with.

Does anyone have advice that would point me in the right direction and as importantly what pitfalls to avoid?

 

[SS Inc.]

First of all, if your boss doesn't get on here (the forums), then your question doesn't really matter. If he's the BOSS, and can't answer his own question, then he has other probs to begin with. Sorry for the RANT, just had to put my favorite cat down

 

[Malkin]

Ecosolvent is pretty popular these days.

Most media is offered at 54" wide, you'll be better off with a printer that can accept this size or larger. (instead of exactly 48")

Get a laminator, matching size.

If you want to be able to cut/plot the prints as well, you'll need to choose between having separate machines, or an all-in-one.

Common brands to research include Roland, Summa, Mimaki, Mutoh, and probably others I have forgotten.

Learn about what maintenance will be needed for each machine.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

truly no where near enough information has been given..no where near enough.

it would be irresponsible to make a recomendation based on the information provided..or rather not provided.

 

[yahhoo]

buy a printer?

MiMaki, Roland just search the net. get the roland prov3 and a laminator...50k CDN....good luck

 

[Batch]

First of all, if your boss doesn't get on here (the forums), then your question doesn't really matter. If he's the BOSS, and can't answer his own question, then he has other probs to begin with. Sorry for the RANT, just had to put my favorite cat down

SS Inc.,

Its not uncommon for the owners of larger companies not to know too much about the technical aspects of certain departments. We are one of the largest electrical sign companies in our area. The vinyl portion of that company is a fairly small aspect. Since we have subbed out all of the digital prints to date, no one in the company has much knowledge of the machines or upkeep.

I spoke with my boss and he asked me to look into it. He also said he would like to be able to at least do a 4' X 8' panel. I don't see any thing wrong with an owner asking an employee to look into something.

truly no where near enough information has been given..no where near enough.

it would be irresponsible to make a recomendation based on the information provided..or rather not provided.

My post opened a topic with a basic question on which to begin gathering information I need to begin researching a particular subject. I can not ask questions I do not know I need to ask.

Your reply could have been a request for some of the information you say is needed to help. I wonder exactly how you feel your response contributed to the topic?

Malkin and yahhoo and any others that are able to assist me in finding the information I need to advise my company on the subject, your help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[andy]

I think Dan would like to know exactly what the application is before reaming off lots of information relating to printers which would be useless to you and your requirements.

Print direct to substrate?
Print to vinyl?

If you are an electrical shop I presume you'd want to print direct to acrylic and possibly Tvyex for flex face jobs... in which case you would really need two completely different printers.

 

[Mainframe]

Batch, I recommend a Roland VP 540, it has a vinyl cutter built in & makes very nice prints, I have had one for over 18 months & have had great success with many different types of print/cut jobs, if your focus is on having an all around machine to cover many bases, print banners, make non laminated or laminated decals, transluscent vinyl prints for lighted signs, (just set the print to return to origin after printing & reprint over it,) I don't think you could go wrong with a VP 540. my 2 cents-good luck!

 

[Batch]

I think Dan would like to know exactly what the application is before reaming off lots of information relating to printers which would be useless to you and your requirements.

Print direct to substrate?
Print to vinyl?

If you are an electrical shop I presume you'd want to print direct to acrylic and possibly Tvyex for flex face jobs... in which case you would really need two completely different printers.

Well, my boss did think that printing directly to the face or MDO would be best. But, is it worth the extra cost space as opposed to printing to vinyl and applying that to the sign?

I went back and read Dan's recent posts in other threads. Pretty much the same type response.

I am not trying to get into the sign business, Dan. I have been in the sign industry full time since 1982. I passed journeyman's exams in several counties and passed the Florida Electrical Sign Contractors exam. I have practical experience in almost all aspects of the trade, including vinyl and the related software applications. My boss and several other employees also are licensed master sign electricians.

Before the economy went south our company employed over 100 employees. The company has been family run for almost 60 years. Digital print outsourcing has become a problem that is delaying our production and ability to serve our clients. I felt this was the appropriate forum to ask for help in finding the best solution for our company.

andy and Mainframe I appreciate your input.

 

[bob]

...deletia...

Your reply could have been a request for some of the information you say is needed to help. I wonder exactly how you feel your response contributed to the topic?...

Why do you feel that anyone is under any obligation whatsoever to 'contribute to the topic'?

To sum up...

• You want to do wide format digital printing so you drift into these waters and make your pleading.
  
• You seem to be a Serious Specimen**.
  
• From your inability to ask a good question it can be inferred that you don't know your ass from a hot rock about this subject
  
• You appear to give credence to any response that does not offend your sensibilities. Hardly a criteria for choosing sound advice.

**A somewhat nicer way of saying that you possess no observable sense of humor.

Somehow this doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

 

[Fred Weiss]

My recommendation to you, considering your need, your experience and your location, is to call the closest sign supply distributors to you. Grimco, Proveer and Advantage Sign Supply come to mind. That will provide you with your best assurance of good delivery, installation, training and support going into the future. When you have reached a point of two or three printers from which to choose, then come back here to research further and ask more specific questions.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

so we are supposed to guess from your posts what exactly you are expecting your printer to do for your shop? other than you need to be able to print 48" wide.

now that we know you are the biggest and baddest illuminated sign shop in your area i would never recommend the same setup as i would for the homebased sign company working out of an extra bedroom.

the reality is that our industry is changing so rapidly right now that most that are in it don't even realize the changes they are about to be bombarded with. we still don't know what you need to do with this machine? since you said you need the ability toprint 4X8's specifically i am going to guess that this is a large part of what you will be doing with this machine. if that is the case you should not overlook a flatbed. with the upcoming changes you simply will not be able to compete in a few years any other way if this is the type of sign you are producing.

i find it comical that you expect us to ask questions to identify your need. what a joke

 

[Batch]

Why do you feel that anyone is under any obligation whatsoever to 'contribute to the topic'?

To sum up...

• You want to do wide format digital printing so you drift into these waters and make your pleading.
• You seem to be a Serious Specimen**.
• From your inability to ask a good question it can be inferred that you don't know your ass from a hot rock about this subject
• You appear to give credence to any response that does not offend your sensibilities. Hardly a criteria for choosing sound advice.

**A somewhat nicer way of saying that you possess no observable sense of humor.

Somehow this doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

I think the point of my post was that I don't know my ass from a hot rock on the topic and was looking for assistance. I asked for advice and any pitfalls to avoid.
How would you have worded that differently?

Dan,

I was asking why bother posting in a topic stating that you do not have enough information if you are not going to explain what information I needed to provide. You weren't obligated to post anything at all.

Fred thanks for the advice. That is what I have already resolved to do. I was hoping to glean a little wisdom before starting my research.

Bob, My thanking someone for the time they took to respond is not lending credence. It is displaying gratitude.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

please tell me you are not going to be the person 'responsible' for the operation of this department and equipment...

 

[gnemmas]

Our company has had mixed results leasing trucks. I want to look into purchasing the truck to own in house.

My boss seems to think he wants something that haul a 4' X 8' with.

Does anyone have advice that would point me in the right direction and as importantly what pitfalls to avoid?

 

[bob]

I think the point of my post was that I don't know my ass from a hot rock on the topic and was looking for assistance. I asked for advice and any pitfalls to avoid.
How would you have worded that differently?
...

I wouldn't have worded it at all.

I would have struck out into the canebrake and rounded up enough information to be able to ask an intelligent question.

 

[Pro Signs & Graphix]

I think the point of my post was that I don't know my ass from a hot rock on the topic and was looking for assistance.

The point of the other posts was that you did not clarify what you want to accomplish with the printer. Without getting more specific than a "4x8", there is no way for the others to properly advise you.

There are essentially three types of printers - roll (vinyl), flatbed (substrates), and hybrid. We can already ascertain that you do want a small printer. Now if you were to indicate what your bosses wishes are, AS WELL AS budget (not a slam)- then you can get more concise answers. There is no one shoe fits all. You would need both a roll printer and a FB to cover all of your bases. A quality roll printer (60" with production speeds) will run 30k to 60k. A quality FB can be anywhere from 60k to 400k. Theoretically, your boss would be looking at 100k, plus all of the support/finishing equipment.

Where do you fall - vinyl or substrates? What kind of production do you require? How much digital vinyl does an "ES" really use? Are you guys venturing into new "stuff" like wraps?

I would be inclined to think that a 20k Roland printer (not for production wraps), laminator, and a good flatbed would suit your needs. The pitfalls vary by brand, usage and distributor. I know nothing of flatbeds but can tell you that you need to set a budget and road test what fits the same, while asking specific questions about what you are leaning towards.

Lastly, once you decide and purchase, that is when the fun really begins.

 

[Batch]

The point of the other posts was that you did not clarify what you want to accomplish with the printer. Without getting more specific than a "4x8", there is no way for the others to properly advise you.

I've gathered that. :Big Laugh

There are essentially three types of printers - roll (vinyl), flatbed (substrates), and hybrid.

Informative to me.

We can already ascertain that you do want a small printer. Now if you were to indicate what your bosses wishes are, AS WELL AS budget (not a slam)- then you can get more concise answers. There is no one shoe fits all. You would need both a roll printer and a FB to cover all of your bases. A quality roll printer (60" with production speeds) will run 30k to 60k. A quality FB can be anywhere from 60k to 400k. Theoretically, your boss would be looking at 100k, plus all of the support/finishing equipment.

Where do you fall - vinyl or substrates? What kind of production do you require? How much digital vinyl does an "ES" really use? Are you guys venturing into new "stuff" like wraps?

No wraps. We are just trying to cover our electrical customers needs which more and more means digital logos and other things.

I would be inclined to think that a 20k Roland printer (not for production wraps), laminator, and a good flatbed would suit your needs. The pitfalls vary by brand, usage and distributor. I know nothing of flatbeds but can tell you that you need to set a budget and road test what fits the same, while asking specific questions about what you are leaning towards.

Lastly, once you decide and purchase, that is when the fun really begins.

Thanks for the reply. That was the type of reply I hoped for when I thought to ask here.

It really isn't anything like leasing a piece of equipment and then deciding to buy it. I have never seen a large format printer work. We bought prints and so I can't really be specific on what we want. I am just trying to get a feel for what is out there and what I should avoid.

I would like to give [strike]credence[/strike]...errrr...thanks to those who have so far offered help despite my obvious ignorance on the topic.

 

[flyingtroutworks]

I'd find all the printer sellers in your neighborhood and make an appointment with each one for a test drive of the printers they sell. That way you can see what the printers are capable of and which one will fit your budget and expectations. Don't forget to take into account the cost of consumables. Good luck.

Steve

 

[MikePro]

I run a 60" Mimaki solvent and its all i've ever needed.
anything 54"+ is highly recommended, I assume your Boss wants to print MDO graphics... 48" won't cut it, I usually print an extra 1" border around everything for trim or wrapping edges (waterproof'd construction signage), and everyone who prints knows how big of a pain it is to try to print edge to edge all the time.

UV printer would be sweet someday, but 30k vs. 100k made the decision a hell of a lot easier to go with solvent for our first printer. 5years and still kickin' ass!

Latex printer from HP is also a new thing. No need for an exhaust/airfilter, since it only emits water vapor as opposed to solvent printers' noxious fumes.

roland, mimaki, hp, epson are great printers to look into in general.
contact your sign suppliers and they'll usually let you demo a floor model. have some cool files handy for them to rip/print for ya when you go to visit.

also, if you can hold out til next spring before your purchase... if you can manage to attend the ISA sign convention, most distributors'll knock around $8k off the sticker price as a sign show discount. Free vacation! AND you get to see EVERY printer worth knowing about.