New Product Researching solvent printers for our canvas printing business.

[BigfishDM]

Thanks for your reply. It is amazing how the comments vary on the Epson Solvent vs. HP Latex. One minute I hear the Epson is the one you have to have and the next it is the Latex. My big concern would be to spend this kind of money on an Epson and not be satisfied with the durability of the printed canvas. Eliminating the spraying step is the big reason why I want /need one.
I have the room for the Epson but presently only have 2 really nice larger accounts that will require its use. I am finding it harder and harder to do one offs for consumer accounts. I know they add up, but..

STOP READING STUFF AND TAKE ACTION! GET PRINTS OFF THE EPSON, THEN GET THE SAME PRINTS OFF AN HP LATEX! I don't even want you to buy the equipment from me, I am giving you some of my 23 years of experience. The best thing to do is to get YOUR prints done off the different machines you are looking at. Send in YOUR canvas also. Do you go buy a car without test driving it? Go test drive the machines you want to buy, pretty simple, as all the dealers will be more than happy to show you what their equipment can do for you.

 

[Solventinkjet]

One minute I hear the Epson is the one you have to have and the next it is the Latex.

Epson has been around for a long time and has proven technology so it has a lot of followers. Almost every Roland, Mimaki and Mutoh printer you hear about are all based on Epson technology which means most people in this industry have had experience with Epson at some point,. HP Latex is the newer shinier product and has gained about 50% of the market share. This is no insult to anyone but the latex guys seem to be almost cultish about the technology which is why you see such a fierce defense of it. At the end of the day many people are using both for the exact same projects and are succeeding. As BigFish said, get samples from both and see what you like.

 

[ColorCrest]

Last question, maybe.

I read adding the white ink on the S80600 can add to your maintenance woes?
On our big landscape prints with large white puffy clouds we would have white canvas base coat as the white color if it is 255.
Will there be much gloss differential when you are not using white ink as an over print?

Don't be confused with this matter as it's unnecessary for your type of work and an Epson, for example, will be specifically installed without the option.

 

[ColorCrest]

Dan,

You're diligent with your research. Kudos. At this point, you're at a sign industry forum, but signs are not yet your market. Gicleé rings your customer's bell mostly and your shop is a boutique. The leap you might take will force you into being a manufacturing resource for certain products that you will step into and you will need to step up into. There will be a challenge but how else is there to grow unless you hire staff to do it for you as some others have the luxury?

Further, I suggest you look up Casa Marco Fine Arts and read every word on their site of their various companies. Then look up Scott Martin at Onsight and Mike Adams at CorrectColor, all 3 in Texas. Pay Scott and Mike, the two consultants, any fee they ask.

Otherwise, consider my first post where I mentioned a liquid laminator for your current workflow.

 

[Dan Berg]

Thanks to all.
Time to let the dust settle.

 

[jfiscus]

The additional white ink does not cause any more maintenance/cleaning issues than normal. Maintenance is very minimal and quick when necessary. We spend about 5 minutes a week cleaning each of ours.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Last question, maybe.

I read adding the white ink on the S80600 can add to your maintenance woes?
On our big landscape prints with large white puffy clouds we would have white canvas base coat as the white color if it is 255.
Will there be much gloss differential when you are not using white ink as an over print?

You don't need white for this. Just use the canvas as your base point for white. Also, printing white on a solvent machine makes it print slooooooooowly. Like 10% normal speed. None of our artists have ever complained about the white point, and we've turned out so many canvases I've lost count.

Also, you shouldn't notice any gloss variation when using either satin or gloss canvases. You may notice it on matte canvas however.
The canvas we print onto (satin) has virtually zero variation between printed and white/unprinted portions after a couple of minutes dry time.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

You don't need white for this. Just use the canvas as your base point for white. Also, printing white on a solvent machine makes it print slooooooooowly. Like 10% normal speed. None of our artists have ever complained about the white point, and we've turned out so many canvases I've lost count.

Also, you shouldn't notice any gloss variation when using either satin or gloss canvases. You may notice it on matte canvas however.
The canvas we print onto (satin) has virtually zero variation between printed and white/unprinted portions after a couple of minutes dry time.

The Epson White is actually pretty fast from what we tested. and the Epson is smart about their white, if it is not in use you place a maintenance cartridge in there so you aren't wasting any expensive ink.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

The Epson White is actually pretty fast from what we tested. and the Epson is smart about their white, if it is not in use you place a maintenance cartridge in there so you aren't wasting any expensive ink.

I stand corrected on this one. I was basing the figures on our old Roland when we had white solvent. We never ordered white for our S80600 as we now have a UV that does the job way faster.

 

[dypinc]

Do you think I could get decent black and white prints from the HP inset?

To get good black and white prints from the latex you have to really stay on top of the calibration, unless you use the black ink only which I don't think you would be satisfied with. Depending on your GCR settings you can get good black and whites but the less black ink you use the more you have to stay on top of its calibration as the latex is more susceptible to environmental variations and the color densities change as the print heads are used. I did PM you offering to print some canvas samples for you.

 

[greysquirrel]

The ink usually takes on the sheen of the media you are printing on...the best part of the s80 you can remove white and use a cleaning cartridge then switch back....the new s series has been pretty solid. The original s series was no so great...but Epson fixed every issue and improved the product.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

If you have the budget, you should look at the Canon Colorado 1650. It can pump out canvas at rapid speed and with NO Dot Gain fine detail is easily reproducible. When we were demoing the 1650 we were looking at the Superior and Ultra modes in Matte on Canvas and it was amazing how fine some of the detailed areas were. We plan on printing some Canvas when our machine arrives and I'll post pics.

 

[FactorDesign]

We went from an Epson S50675 to an HP 560. The HP has been great and basically maintenance free. The fine detail we get from this machine blows away our old Epson. The S50675 wasn't nearly the machine the S80600 is, but the black and white images that come out of the HP are very impressive and makes us realize how poor the old Epson really was at this.

 

[Ldireprophil]

Latex all day every day.