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Right and wrong

DizzyMarkus

DizzyMarkus

New Member
My neighbor called me and is opening a small deli type place right on the main drag in town, dead downtown so good exposure for me, yet small job. The place is called "The Cutting Board" with a simple cuttingboard and knife graphic under a small arch text saying so (I know,I know on the arch but this allowed me a small bit more in letter size and what they wanted) The window is only 43" across and 48" of exposed area. Out of that area he wanted to be able to see out from inside sitting down eating. He showed me exactly where he wanted it and we put tape on the inside so when I returned to install it was there.( I measured it too) :0) Cool easy enough. I made up 6 different font, color and small layout changes (not much to change). The choose a scrolly type font that wasn't to bad but matched the current door fonts pretty close. I explained to them dark colors on windows usually don't fair well but you all know how that ended up, they chose burgundy and white -- OK cool. To shorten the story some -- I did all the setup for $0.00 as he is a direct neighbor, new business and cost me about $5 worth of vinyl figuring it would benefit me in the long run. He also had to have it yesterday of course so after getting the decision to cut from them I cut and installed @ 8:30pm his windows, coming home and dropping off "an extra set" (hate to waste vinyl) to him as a BONUS lol. I told him pay me tomorrow as it was late etc. # days go by and I don't hear from him and seems to be ducking me when I leave or work in the yard. Oh boy here we go! He finally calls and says:

"Mark I have your money here, but I think we are going to take it down as we don't like it"

I explained to them that that's what they chose but I would gladly take it down and they may keep their money to have a happy customer. Im new and don't want to have a bad name or any type of slander put forth for this stupid deal. I was actually going to take the window down and leave the door one for them. So anyhow --- I called them to let them know the decals were removed from the window and theymay have to give a quick windex in the am when it was lighter out. I then asked him to drop off the "extras" I had made and all is well -- he got real poopy and did not want to return them. I explained that no payments had been made or charged, you didn't like the design you chose and I would like them returned. I returned home to find them folded in half twice hanging a supermarket bag on my doorknob.

Did I handle this right?
Should I have not asked for the extras returned?
Should I have accepted the money and let them take it down?


Thanks for all he input folks and sorry for the long post as I wanted to explain all of it.

Markus



PS:
I made the text 42.75 of 43 and the image as large as I could without overpowering the text. I did try to get them to add a tag line to fill more window and explain what Cutting Board" was. I have a pic at the shop and will upload it when I get over there. The install height and inside seating height were spot on -- leaving 20" of viewable room.
 
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Craig Sjoquist

Craig Sjoquist

New Member
What is the problem ?
They did not like the final outcome.
You made extra of something they did not like, you asked for return of it.
You did not charge for unwanted services.

What do they have to complain about. ?
 
DizzyMarkus

DizzyMarkus

New Member
I hear ya, but for some reason I am feeling like I went about it wrong-- maybe it was asking for the extras to be returned. He got real poopy and said "dude, whatever - you'll get the stickers back...."

Their general complaint was they didnt like the design. They thought the letters would be bigger. I can only stretch 43" in so many ways on my end lol I also offered other fonts which made a larger impact (lol no pun intended) as explained to them.

I generally have a pretty strongback and thick skin -- I try not to do stuff for direct neighbors. The only plus is they rent so someday it wont be "wierd" anymore hehe

I just want to make sure I went about the process the correct way.

thanks greatly for your input,
Markus
 
bob

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Did you handle this right? No.You put up vinyl on a window, you get paid. If the owner and operator of the window should decide that it's not longer satisfied with the work, that's not your problem.

So you're the new guy on the block, that doesn't mean that you have to bend over and spread 'em.

What possible reason would you have for making extra vinyl in the first place and then wanting the extra work back? Were you planning on doing something with it other than tossing it on the burn pile? You previously said you didn't like to waste vinyl. Aside from that particular fetish, it was wasted when you cut it.
 
DizzyMarkus

DizzyMarkus

New Member
Hello Bob and thank you for your input -- I value everyones here :0)

The Extra wasnt as much waste as it was more small snips left over sitting around my shop. Thats covered in another recent thread hehe I just thought rather than have a 14" x 43" long piece of burgandy vinyl laying around the shop was more productive to cut it and give it to them as a BONUS type situtation. I learned my lesson there -- from now on I'll give the scraps to Crickut users :0) The only reason for asking for the work back is they were not paying :rolleyes: and they were going to take the other down. My reason was why would they want it and they arn't getting it for free. I have yet to get made or panties in a bunch over it and using this as a valuebale learning experience.

Thank you greatly,
Markus
 
Malkin

Malkin

New Member
You might be new in town, but you want to conduct business in a manner that garners respect. Being kind of a pushover is not going to help land the good clients. Give good service, and back it up by charging for it.

I would have offered to make adjustments to the design for a reasonable additional cost.

Also, I might give an extra or 2 when the order is for many small pieces, but I wouldn't give an entire extra set of window lettering. Either keep it for when the window gets replaced, or just toss it.
 
J

john1

Guest
In my opinion you handled the whole situation incorrectly.

50% deposit to start any job, No questions asked. Not neighbor, cousin, aunt, uncle, pastor, president ect. 50% up front, 50% upon completion. Covers your time as well as materials and shows a trust relationship that your customer won't screw you and trust in you from your customer that you can deliver the job for them.

You did the job, it should be paid for regardless if they changed their minds or not. Work was done, work gets paid for.

You should be charging for layout design, it takes time so it gets charged. For such a small job, I wouldn't give anyone extras. Shops like this generally don't need much and are looking for a one shot deal from a sign company which is window lettering and that's about it. This guys going to get window lettering done, then go to vista print and get his business cards.

Honestly, you have a pissed off "customer" and the deal is done and over with. Read ALOT on the forums and entrepreneur magazine to learn to handle yourself professionally.
 
Deaton Design

Deaton Design

New Member
With friends like this you dont need enemies. If you did the job the way they knew it was going to be dont, the way they chose it, then they are stuck with it. You should have got your payment and went on. If you think this is the only customer you will ever have to act like this, you are way wrong. If you give them all their money back, you will be out of business quicker than you started. I am all for good relations with everyone, but it sounds like you did the job as expected, then they decided they didnt like it, after the fact. Their loss.
 
Deaton Design

Deaton Design

New Member
And now that I think about it, no doubt he would have put the extra set on there and got a free sign. Thats why he balked about that.
 
J

john1

Guest
You gotta have the mindset that yes customers can be your best friend but they also can be out to screw you over. Always be cautious, Just like in a relationship with a women lol

Sometimes i want to just do extra work for no extra cost but your in business, EVERYTHING costs you money. Time is money, materials is money. Most of the time just completing the job in a timely manner means a lot to your customers. You won't believe the jack offs around here who leave customers hanging for weeks on end for a simple 3 hour production job. It's like get it done or get out of business because it's not that big of a deal to get it done and you just pissed off a customer.
 
Joe Diaz

Joe Diaz

New Member
Since you're new I think you just had your cherry popped and experienced Bad Customer Type #5: The customer that waits until it's time to pay their bill to tell you they are unhappy with the work you have done. This is actually quite common. He was most likely just fishing for a discount, hence the reason he was upset when you removed the graphics and asked for the spares back. Never in his wildest dreams did he think that the new sign maker would be crazy enough to do additional work by removing the graphics and then not collecting any payment at all. He probably just thought you would knock a few bucks off the job. And to be honest, not that I'm saying you should have, but that would have been a better scenario than the one you chose.

If I were to guess... and this is just a guess... opening this deli probably is costing more than he originally thought so he's desperate for ever red cent he can save, or he's just cheap, who knows. It doesn't really mater though.

He made the design decisions (Bad Customer Type #11: the customer that hires a professional for his or her expertise, then tells them how to do their job). I'm assuming he saw a sketch (and I hope you had him sign off on that sketch). I'm also assuming your application work was fine, so really he got exactly what he wanted. Where you messed up is when you didn't collect payment for a job well done on your part.

Normally in cases like this, if this guy does it to you he has done similar things to other people he has done business with. SO, I wouldn't worry about your reputation. Think back to the last time someone you know to be difficult was complaining about someone else's services. Did you mentally side with the person you know is a pain in the a$$ to work with, or the other person that stuck to their guns. You need to be the person sticking to your guns. People will respect that, especially other business people because they have been in your shoes before.

Oh also before I forget... Bad Customer Type #16: The customer that expects or asks for discounts because of some nonprofessional relationship, like a neighbor or a friend.
 
DizzyMarkus

DizzyMarkus

New Member
I love the learning experience and opinions on this forum. I got both sides of good and bad along with the great points on both sides of the coin.
I am proud of myself for not going to his level and becoming irrational or anything other than completely professional with yes Sir and no Sir and Good luck in the future as my parting way. He on the other hand got real bad once I asked for the others in return and I had removed the vinyl as I told him I would and he agreed was cool.. The deli has been "opening" for 3 months. He did kind of hesitate when I said " No problem Sir, I can remove them tonite for you if you like".

I know have learned a few things about customer #5 :0)

Neighbor or Pope deposit... Deposit... Deposit... I kind of already knew this but slacked due to neighbor stuff -- Shame on me the first time :0)

If the job is completed, payment is expected -- Unhappy customers (hope they are far between lol) will get an option of further changing the final product if this happens in the future once full payment has been made on the original.

Once work has started the deposit is non-refundable



CheapVehicleWraps -- eww you can't even sqash those with a boot :0)

Deaton Design -- I totally agree and my reason in asking for their return. They for sure would have reappeared in a week or two, his true colors really showed. Funny how little things show true colors like that.

Joe Diaz -- I did thanks to reading this board have them sign off -- I actually gave them a sheet with 6 choices -- they are to sign through the one they want to use leaving no questions :0) One of my first thoughts also was I feel sorry to be a future vendor of his

thank you all greatly,
Markus
 
Pat Whatley

Pat Whatley

New Member
Two thoughts....first thing I would have done was gotten a whole lot more information about why they didn't like it. Were the colors bad? Were the fonts bad? Was it all too big/too small? Using 42.75" of the available 43" width is NEVER a good idea.

Secondly.....DO WORK, GET PAID. Period. If you want to go back and redo it for free after you get paid for the first one that's your decision.

Right now you have:
--money spent on materials
--time spent installing and removing materials
--time spent taking the order and setting up the order
--a business owner who thinks you're incompetent
--a neighbor who thinks you're a dick

The shop that he hires to redo it will have:
--the benefit of him telling them what didn't work and why
--the ability to charge more than you did since he's already going to assume that whatever you gave him was all he could get for what you charged
--the knowledge that they'd better get paid upfront
--and in the end they'll have a happy customer AND THE MONEY.

You've got all the negatives....somebody else is getting to profit from your problems.
 
DizzyMarkus

DizzyMarkus

New Member
Very good points Pat and thank you for posting them as well as your thoughts on this. I am learning with every step I take and believe me I do learn from them.

To help with some answers -- all I was offered through our conversation was "we thought the letters would be bigger". Hence the all available space. I also disagreed with them wanting that, as the window trim was burgandy also, like the text outline.

There is one other shop in town who has a bad rap of misprints, weeks for orders and miserable misdemeaner. My guess is they will most likely not open and have struggled for months trying to open. I felt bad and tried to help them out. My mistake. Lesson learned and VALUEABLE information has been given to me from you guys abut how I should have dealt with this. I have never had such an issue lol


Thanks you all,
Markus
 
GAC05

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
In the spirit you are taking this it looks like what you have learned will far exceed what you lost in not getting paid.

wayne k
guam usa
 
BobM

BobM

New Member
Regarding "an extra set" (hate to waste vinyl) to him as a BONUS" given to the customer no charge: 95% of my installs are done at my cutomers locations and I cover a wide area. I usually cut an extra set to save me from having to come all the way back if I have a problem. Like you I used to leave the extra set, No Charge. A lone time customer some 60 miles away called and needed his new truck letter ASAP. I cut the vinyl the next morning and drove to his shop only to find the truck lettered with the "extra vinyl". The install was crooked, some letters creased and bubbles like you see on the Lawrence Welk show.
Not wanting to have my name associated with that install I told the customer I wanted to remove "his" install and do the job right. He decided he wanted to save the money for the new lettering and it looked OK from a distance.
I still make an extra set, but keep it for the next time. A lesson well learned.
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
If you did what he expected and he doesnt like it it shouldnt be your fault. He seems to be somewhat of a clusterf*** in his mind anyway.

What to do now? Take all your toys and go home and walk away from this before you dig yourself deeper. Do not try and fix this its only going o be a disaster. The money is not going to come on this job I can assure you that. move on and learn
 
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