RIP software opinions

[Lea Marc]

Hi guys,

We currently run Flexi 12 for two Mutohs and a Roland XR-640 (we use Versaworks too depending on the job) and are looking at acquiring an HP360. If we do we have the option of changing our software to Onyx Thrive or GMG Print Factory, what are your thoughts on these?

I find Flexi OK but it does have a few glitches sometimes and I feel the user interface could be easier to work with. The previews too are low res and it would be great to have software which would be better able to have more consistent colour between the different machines. Looking at Onyx today and the HP profiles I was impressed with the amount of profiles available and at first glance, how much easier it is to colour calibrate your own profiles than Flexi. Thoughts?

Thanks, Steve

 

[struthmuffin]

Haha, I am on the opposite side of the coin... I have a latex.. and Onyx. I find onyx really slow. I agree Flexi was buggy last time I tried it.. but have been considering trying it again. I do remember flexi and found the color profile building actually was better I thought...

Onyx does work very well though.. stable usually.. just slowwww and definitely lacking with cutting.. doing vinyl or print/cut jobs were better and easier in flexi.

I might sound more pro flexi, but I am in the dilemma as well.. just thinking about going the opposite way.

 

[Lea Marc]

Thanks. Actually I did too notice that Onyx was slow today at our demo, good to know. We currently use Cutting Master 3 through Illustrator to plot to our Graphtec, no major issues there.

 

[jfiscus]

We have Onyx on two PCs here and it seems fast to us, but we have fast PCs.
It is very stable and reliable in my opinion. I have never had any difficulty doing print/cut jobs that weren't the fault of the person setting up the job.

 

[Pauly]

I've always ran Onyx, Went from X10 to X12. x12 is a lot quicker than 10. Never had issues with it.
I have not used the others mentioned but as i've been told GMG is quite good but you pay for it.

If you want the best colour output possible, then i'd recommend onyx. But id also recommend getting a 3rd party icc profiling software (I'll get to that)

Profiling through onyx can be easy or complicated, depending on how accurate you want to get. There's a print read next method which is pretty simple, or you can do it all manually which is what i do. Onyx has great ink restrictions/ink limiting and all that.
The down side is that the onyx ICC engine isn't the best. It works with some printers but not all. It doesn't like my Oce Arizona. It makes all the high chroma colours go muddy. so i make my icc profile with i1 profiler and import it in. More recently i've moved to using Basiccolor Print. And i haven't had any issues with either.

Onyx works hand in hand with the X rite i1 pro, But can use a whole list of devices (I have a few Barbieri devices and works great)

So if you get onyx, i'd recommend getting an i1pro package and you'll have more than you need for great colour and spot colour checks ect.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Hi guys,

We currently run Flexi 12 for two Mutohs and a Roland XR-640 (we use Versaworks too depending on the job) and are looking at acquiring an HP360. If we do we have the option of changing our software to Onyx Thrive or GMG Print Factory, what are your thoughts on these?

I find Flexi OK but it does have a few glitches sometimes and I feel the user interface could be easier to work with. The previews too are low res and it would be great to have software which would be better able to have more consistent colour between the different machines. Looking at Onyx today and the HP profiles I was impressed with the amount of profiles available and at first glance, how much easier it is to colour calibrate your own profiles than Flexi. Thoughts?

Thanks, Steve

The color between the two machines is the profile being used to run the machine. Both machines can be setup to print correctly. Thus making both machines print basically the same colors with the same files. This is where the i1Pro would come into use. You will have color issues, regardless of RIP software, if you don't correctly profile each machine to print CMYK to match SPOT as best as possible.

 

[AF]

Had Onyx and it didn't do well with our work flow. Been very happy with Colorgate Production Server for print and print-n-cut workflows. Newest version has extended HP 360 support:

https://www.colorgate.com/version-10-highlights/

It is worth getting a free trial, especially with the new version of APPE.

 

[struthmuffin]

I've always ran Onyx, Went from X10 to X12. x12 is a lot quicker than 10. Never had issues with it.
I have not used the others mentioned but as i've been told GMG is quite good but you pay for it.

If you want the best colour output possible, then i'd recommend onyx. But id also recommend getting a 3rd party icc profiling software (I'll get to that)

Profiling through onyx can be easy or complicated, depending on how accurate you want to get. There's a print read next method which is pretty simple, or you can do it all manually which is what i do. Onyx has great ink restrictions/ink limiting and all that.
The down side is that the onyx ICC engine isn't the best. It works with some printers but not all. It doesn't like my Oce Arizona. It makes all the high chroma colours go muddy. so i make my icc profile with i1 profiler and import it in. More recently i've moved to using Basiccolor Print. And i haven't had any issues with either.

Onyx works hand in hand with the X rite i1 pro, But can use a whole list of devices (I have a few Barbieri devices and works great)

So if you get onyx, i'd recommend getting an i1pro package and you'll have more than you need for great colour and spot colour checks ect.

I think onyx 12 is native 64 bit so should run faster.. our machine isn't slow, but its not a beast.. either way I can tell from experience the one thing that flexi was great at was the initial file setup... onyx rips once you put a file in... then any manipulations you want to do have to wait.. flexi puts the file in with a preview and you can modify then rip... (rotate etc).. Cutting on flexi was just more robust... sends cut preview to trace out the space you will use on the vinyl... allows you to add weeding lines... just all round more robust..
The color profiling (if you have on board spectro) I found was almost equivalent.. the only thing I liked better in flexi, was that the ink limit chart was easier to choose the right spot to limit the file.

BUT.. 100% onyx was more stable.. rarely crashes.. pretty solid with files... had some weird file issues and more frequent crashes with flexi.

 

[struthmuffin]

Had Onyx and it didn't do well with our work flow. Been very happy with Colorgate Production Server for print and print-n-cut workflows. Newest version has extended HP 360 support:

https://www.colorgate.com/version-10-highlights/

It is worth getting a free trial, especially with the new version of APPE.

I have never looked at colorgate before.. I also see it has a proofing version.. what kind of price point is colorgate at?

I hate hate hate when software has videos but shows nothing of the actual software in action... but I am interested in seeing what its all about.

 

[FrankW]

To have maximum color consistence between different Printers, you should use a RIP with the ability for CMYK-Emulation. In this case, the printers won't be calibrated to their maximum colour gamut, but for a color space all printers can achieve, for example by emulating ISOCoated or such. GMG Printfactory (or SAi Pixelblaster with the same base) is able to do CMYK-Simulation, and much more. But: CMYK-Simulation won't work with standard profiles, you need to do your own calibration consequently.

I have no experience with Print Factory, but with SAi Pixelblaster (as with Onyx, Flexi, Ergosoft Posterprint and so on too, as a supporter) based on the same engine. And I love it. Best panelling functionality on the market, high automatisation potential, very good PDF handling and much more.

With version 12, Onyx switches to 64 bit, and they say that it "up to doubles the speed". I have done some tests, and Onyx feels a little bit faster and smoother over all. The speed of RIPping between Onyx 11 and 12 is between 10% and up to 90% faster, dependend of settings and file type. But: it is possible to set up files in 32-Bit Flexi too that nearly match the speed of Onyx 12.

For my opinion, Flexi is much easier to use than Onyx. But Onyx have better colour replacement features. It is not easy to decide. Some things are really weird: for example Onyx needs a gateway software for using Barbieri Color Devices, Flexi can drive them directly.

The HP 360 makes the decision for a RIP completely independent of the selection of profiles, because they are printer based. There are currently profiles available for more than 600 different medias, and all of them can be used with EVERY RIP. Of course, with using this Profiles or creating some with the internal profiling system, CMYK-Emulation will not work properly. But it is possible to calibrate this printer too in the RIP.

By the way, Flexi and current Latex printers works very smooth together: FlexiPRINT is the OEM-RIP delivered with the Latex 310 and 330, and they are very near with HP. As far as I know, they were the first who have the certification for the Latex 560 too (but of course, onyx and GMG have drivers too).

 

[Rob Screeen70]

Seeget Pro

Currently using Seeget Pro to print on a Flatbed printer with white option. (HandTop2512 UV led -R5).
This Rip software was installed with the printer, Calibration is a big fuzz, and has to be don by the service mechanic (no calibration tools where provided with the printer).
Rip crashes when you try to mirror or rotate a file when there is a layer for white in the file.
and the entire computer has to be installed again, and does not recognize te printer anymore.




Waiting to switch to Colorgate,

 

[Lea Marc]

Hi guys,

So we made the switch to the 360 and so far I'm impressed with the print quality and speed plus the user interface of the touchscreen with all the loaded profiles. However the ink usage seems high. Flexi can't give any ink estimations and their support desk said HP controls that so you have to use their web server, which is neat to use and very helpful however I would like to be able to edit the fields such as print duration and more importantly to get some kind of ink estimation before we actually print the job.

Has anyone else experienced these? Have you found the ink usage high and found a way around that? Is it the Flexi software we're using or does HP have that much control on the software side of things? And can I make these changes in the accounting feature of the web software or is what you see what you get?

Thanks in advance.