Roland BN-20

[kevinj6121]

Does anyone have a Roland BN-20 printer/cutter. I am thinking of getting one and just wondering how you like it and how are they for doing t shirts

 

[Zoogee World]

I personally would say stay away and get a used older model, like a SP-300i or VS-300i. But if you're wanting it for T-shirts, might want to consider a DTG printer.

 

[kevinj6121]

I personally would say stay away and get a used older model, like a SP-300i or VS-300i. But if you're wanting it for T-shirts, might want to consider a DTG printer.

Big No on DTG printers, those things cost way too much. Do you or have you in the past owned a BN-20, why do you say to stay away from them

 

[ikarasu]

Watch some YouTube videos on how slow the bn20 is. Not just that, getting material that you don't have to cut down is expensive. So if you are considering one make sure your local supplier has a slitter otherwise you're paying through the roof for the vinyl.

You would have to use heat transfer vinyl in them, it's not very economical unless you're doing one-offs and charging like 20 to $30 a shirt. Just the material is a few bucks a square foot let alone the labor and alignment and pressing it on. I found anything over six shirts it is actually cheaper to ounces then to use HTV.

If you still want to go to HTV route though, as others have said get a 30-in printer or a used 54 in if you have space. The bn-20 is just too slow to be anything but a hobby machine. I would put it a step below Cricut even... I can't see how anybody makes money with them.

 

[T-Amhawk]

We just purchased one for more in house projects, more vynil labels for our equipment builds.
Yes it's a bit slow but great print and cut quality.
Not sure I would consider for high volume printing though.

 

[kevinj6121]

Watch some YouTube videos on how slow the bn20 is. Not just that, getting material that you don't have to cut down is expensive. So if you are considering one make sure your local supplier has a slitter otherwise you're paying through the roof for the vinyl.

You would have to use heat transfer vinyl in them, it's not very economical unless you're doing one-offs and charging like 20 to $30 a shirt. Just the material is a few bucks a square foot let alone the labor and alignment and pressing it on. I found anything over six shirts it is actually cheaper to ounces then to use HTV.

If you still want to go to HTV route though, as others have said get a 30-in printer or a used 54 in if you have space. The bn-20 is just too slow to be anything but a hobby machine. I would put it a step below Cricut even... I can't see how anybody makes money with them.

I don't know that i'd put the Bn-20 a step below a cricut machine if for nothing else the cricut can only cut and the BN-20 can both print and cut, it may be on the slow side and not meant for a high production shop but for some one looking for a little side hustle from home and for the price its not a bad option

I found this deal on line
Roland BN-20A Desktop 20" Eco-Solvent Printer & Cutter w/ double CMYK Inks $5,450.00 Thats not bad at all
$2 a square foot for HTV not that bad if your getting blank shirts for 5 bucks and you used one 12 inch sheet of HTV your in it $7 sell for 20 thats 13 profit per shirt, who sells custom shirts for under $20 i just had 5 shirts made last year for another business i have and it cost me cost me $100 and i did shop around
Roland sells a 20inch 50 foot roll of adhesive vinyl $44 for 20 inch 50 foot roll the 88cents a foot

 

[ikarasu]

I believe the bn20 cuts even slower than a cricut, that's why I put it at a step below.

Time is money... The Roland can print 7.5 sqft an hour. 7.5.... sqft an hour. I've seen Johnny draw a photo faster than that!

You're probably using close to
1.5 sqft of vinyl per shirt. So you can print 5 shirts in an hour. 12 mins a shirt to print... Then you have to cut it... Then you have to weed it, premask, press... You're looking at 15-20 mins a shirt.

Here's the thing, and why I don't see why bn20 has a place in any shop.
T
he bn20 is a solvent printer. It needs to be run daily, or every 2-3 days. It will constantly clean and waste ink... Which is very expensive compared to normal wide format ink as it is. It can't be left unplugged or sitting idle for weeks.

so you either do enough jobs to bring a printer in house... In which case this thing is too slow... Or you don't print enough and you're spending more money on ink than you're making on the machine.

theres a reason there's so many bn20s in brand new condition for sale... No one wants to keep them.

Wat h a YouTube video of it printing without them speeding it up to see what I mean. This is on high quality... So it might be a bit slower than normal print mode. But a used 30" can probably print a full roll by the time this thing can print 10 ft of media.


It looks like they've been selling it for 10 years, so I must be wrong and their has to be a use for it. But personally... I wouldn't take one for free, unless I was going to flea markets or setup in a mall or something.

 

[Zoogee World]

Big No on DTG printers, those things cost way too much. Do you or have you in the past owned a BN-20, why do you say to stay away from them

You can get the DTG Roland One, the only thing is that it doesn't print white, so you'd only be able to do light shirts, but anyways, for the BN-20 I haven't owned one personally, but have used it at a work place I did some freelance work at. The BN-20 is very, very slow, even compared to the SP-300V which is way older then it and the quality is the same. It also doesn't have a heater, so anything with lots of ink will need to sit quite a while before you can do anything with. It might look great from a price stand point, but as the saying goes... you get what you pay for. You should be able to pick up a used VS-300i for about the same price and you'll get better results and faster print speeds. But this is all just my opinion, you still are free to do as you like.

 

[kevinj6121]

I believe the bn20 cuts even slower than a cricut, that's why I put it at a step below.

Time is money... The Roland can print 7.5 sqft an hour. 7.5.... sqft an hour. I've seen Johnny draw a photo faster than that!

You're probably using close to
1.5 sqft of vinyl per shirt. So you can print 5 shirts in an hour. 12 mins a shirt to print... Then you have to cut it... Then you have to weed it, premask, press... You're looking at 15-20 mins a shirt.

Here's the thing, and why I don't see why bn20 has a place in any shop.
T
he bn20 is a solvent printer. It needs to be run daily, or every 2-3 days. It will constantly clean and waste ink... Which is very expensive compared to normal wide format ink as it is. It can't be left unplugged or sitting idle for weeks.

so you either do enough jobs to bring a printer in house... In which case this thing is too slow... Or you don't print enough and you're spending more money on ink than you're making on the machine.

theres a reason there's so many bn20s in brand new condition for sale... No one wants to keep them.

Wat h a YouTube video of it printing without them speeding it up to see what I mean. This is on high quality... So it might be a bit slower than normal print mode. But a used 30" can probably print a full roll by the time this thing can print 10 ft of media.


It looks like they've been selling it for 10 years, so I must be wrong and their has to be a use for it. But personally... I wouldn't take one for free, unless I was going to flea markets or setup in a mall or something.

I know its slow, if I buy one I know that going in, it wouldn't be like "oh my god what did i do this thing is so slow" as far as ink goes the cartridges are like $72 apiece

I have no idea what ink cost for other machines as i've not priced it but i wouldn't think its any cheaper then then $72 each
Any ink based machine, from what i see including those DTG printers waste ink when not being used as they must go through cleaning cycles to help them keep from clogging up
I think thats just par for the course on any ink based machine.

The ink waste was one of my 1st questions when speaking with a sales person on these machines and i was told it was very minimal, i was told the ink waste per day if not being used is like .75cents a day 22.50 a month in a 30 day month "if true" thats not to bad but you gotta consider the source "a sales person" thats why these forms and facebook groups are so good, its the real world end user's that we get better info from.

I've tried to find other alternatives to the BN-20 around the same price range for a all in one print and cut machine and they just don't exist that i can find,, the price jump goes up to 10k or better.
I am one who likes to buy new so a used one is out of the question for me. and i wouldn't need or want anything over 28 to 34 inches

you can buy a machine that just does vinyl printing and a separate machine for the cutting but your still going to spend over 10k most likely

If you know of anything please share

 

[David Wright]

My former sales rep, now that he can be honest, told me they had nothing but trouble with these. Even supplies were an issue. Almost bought one years ago.

 

[ikarasu]

200ml for $75 is expensive. I pay $100ish for 700ml.. so Almost 1/3 the price.

Napkin math time ..

2 sqft a shirt (cut marks, leading material, etc). $4
Blank shirt - $5
Ink - $2ish

That's $11 a shirt. Let's be generous on time..15 mins to print, well say 5 for at setup and t-shirt prep / weeding and cutting and packaging and everything else ( likely way more, but like I said well be generous) let's say you value your time at $20 an hour. That's $5 of labour. Your now at $16 in cost... Not including machine wear and tear, electricity, reprints.... Etc.

I it also does not scale well. The cost per shirt when doing 10 shirts is almost the same as the cost of doing one shirt.

But we'll be generous again and drop your cost down to $14. So let's say $6 profit.

5450 for the machine, you have to print 908 shirts to pay off the machine with zero screw ups, and ignoring all other costs.

And no I do not have a better solution for you. That is the problem with such a low budget and trying to do what you're trying to do, other companies can produce a shirt at the fraction of what you're producing at, so any competition in your area will be able to undercut you.

I would say your best bet is to outsource until you make enough to buy a bigger machine.

 

[kevinj6121]

200ml for $75 is expensive. I pay $100ish for 700ml.. so Almost 1/3 the price.

Napkin math time ..

2 sqft a shirt (cut marks, leading material, etc). $4
Blank shirt - $5
Ink - $2ish

That's $11 a shirt. Let's be generous on time..15 mins to print, well say 5 for at setup and t-shirt prep / weeding and cutting and packaging and everything else ( likely way more, but like I said well be generous) let's say you value your time at $20 an hour. That's $5 of labour. Your now at $16 in cost... Not including machine wear and tear, electricity, reprints.... Etc.

I it also does not scale well. The cost per shirt when doing 10 shirts is almost the same as the cost of doing one shirt.

But we'll be generous again and drop your cost down to $14. So let's say $6 profit.

5450 for the machine, you have to print 908 shirts to pay off the machine with zero screw ups, and ignoring all other costs.

And no I do not have a better solution for you. That is the problem with such a low budget and trying to do what you're trying to do, other companies can produce a shirt at the fraction of what you're producing at, so any competition in your area will be able to undercut you.

I would say your best bet is to outsource until you make enough to buy a bigger machine.

well i may just skip the all in one print and cut machines for now and just get a bigger cutter, a 28 or 34 inch one will do and they are way way cheaper.
one of those white toner printers was something i was considering and i may just revisit that idea

 

[hobbymad]

I have a BN-20. Yes it's slow, and not suited for large scale production. But if you just want a few printed T-shirts it works great. If you want to just make T-shirts and don't mind weeding and using only a few colours you can also consider just a cutter. Eg. GS24. Cheers,

 

[hobbymad]

And re. media, most Siser medias are 500mm and they are superb for t-shirts. And I have yet to find a supplier that won't slit media down. In a pinch, I have also ordered larger rolls and just cut them myself on a miter saw. Just put tape all around before cutting and the edge is pretty clean.

 

[kevinj6121]

Having a machine that can both print and cut vinyl is great, having one in the 5 to 6k price point is great as well, expecting it to perform like a 15k machine that both prints and cuts is not gonna happen anytime soon.

The BN-20 is not meant for high production in a busy shop. But it fits the need for the little guy with a little side hustle working from home
working with vinyl your always gonna have the weeding process involved no matter what machine you use, it is what it is

The other and cheaper option is a white toner printer and no weeding involved, However you have to print on one sheet then marry that sheet to another sheet in a heat press
then peel them apart, kinda like weeding in that you have to peel two things apart, only advantage is not having to go back and weed out all the little pieces

But that process of peeling the two pieces apart is not foolproof so many people have problems with it and waste a lot of that paper and toner in the process
there is a little learning curve there that one must master. Not much of a learning curve peeling the vinyl off the carrier sheet, one may be slow at it in the beginning but you get faster
at it the more you do it

Regardless of what machines or method one uses seems there's always something. Dye Sublimation is good but then your limited to polyester and white shirts, using HTV removes these limitations but then you have the weeding thing and you can't do full color prints when using just a cutter.

Screen printing is good but you need space and a lot of equipment and its a process itself to do and your not going to be doing onesies or twosies most screen printers have a 15 shirt minimum and this method is not good for the home side hustle person

 

[Kdgraphix222]

Does anyone have a Roland BN-20 printer/cutter. I am thinking of getting one and just wondering how you like it and how are they for doing t shirts

I purchased one recently after years of vinyl cutting in a one man home-based shop. The benefits are it allows for better creative designs using fades/ gradients highlights, shadows etc without cutting and weeding multiple colors. It offers the same designs for decals, vehicle graphics and the like. I can now do intricate small scale graphics for hats and stickers.

It's small. I don't have room for anything bigger or I would have got a used 30inch Roland for same price.
If you have another plotter (which I do) you can print on Roland and cut on the other plotter. But I haven't had the need to do that yet.

Down sides are it is SLOW. But as a one man shop I plan ahead and I am doing other things while it does it's thing.

Inks are expensive...I have yet to replace them but I'll find a cheaper alternative to Roland's inks when I do. I still outsource plastisol prints or screen printer for larger apparel jobs.
I'm glad I got mine but it is a side gig for me. I don't have to rely on the production for my primary income.

It requires being used almost daily to keep it flowing.

It wastes ink by self-servicing.
All in all I'm glad I got it though. It expanded my capabilities.

 

[kevinj6121]

I purchased one recently after years of vinyl cutting in a one man home-based shop. The benefits are it allows for better creative designs using fades/ gradients highlights, shadows etc without cutting and weeding multiple colors. It offers the same designs for decals, vehicle graphics and the like. I can now do intricate small scale graphics for hats and stickers.

It's small. I don't have room for anything bigger or I would have got a used 30inch Roland for same price.
If you have another plotter (which I do) you can print on Roland and cut on the other plotter. But I haven't had the need to do that yet.

Down sides are it is SLOW. But as a one man shop I plan ahead and I am doing other things while it does it's thing.

Inks are expensive...I have yet to replace them but I'll find a cheaper alternative to Roland's inks when I do. I still outsource plastisol prints or screen printer for larger apparel jobs.
I'm glad I got mine but it is a side gig for me. I don't have to rely on the production for my primary income.

It requires being used almost daily to keep it flowing.

It wastes ink by self-servicing.
All in all I'm glad I got it though. It expanded my capabilities.

how much ink would you say it wastes by self servicing. say on a daily or weekly basis

 

[Kdgraphix222]

how much ink would you say it wastes by self servicing. say on a daily or weekly basis

Not enough for me to worry about it. Every few hours it cycles to keep the ink from drying on the heads. I still have 70% of the 220ml ink remaining after 4 months of use.
One thing I would recommend is having a customer base to support a purchase like that before hand. Cut htv and use plastisol print suppliers if shirts are all you're doing.
It's not worth the expense and maintenance for only t-shirts. I got it more for signage but it does well for short run shirts also.

 

[alex_phebee]

Hi, iam a signmaker from austria so please dont be angry with my english First , yes we have also bought a BN20 1 1/2 Year ago and i think it was the best decision. We also have an embroidery and print t-shirts and most of the t shirt material is comming in 500mm rolls. Perfect for BN20. and i dont stops a bigger printer and also not every time roll change for 20 shirts on a bigger one. yes it has a cutting feature and if the summa is in work mode we use it but we also dont change material often so its calibrated to the main material and only used if there is no time for cutting on the summa T-Series. So if your main goal is to print stuff for printing on shirts ... perfect! we also bought a 60cm laminator just for the transfer material. its printing 4 hours dry out , putting to laminator and press after. one big advantage is also that the bn20 has a extreme good resolution. while most of the time we print for t shirts in fast mode it happend that we had to print a car design on it. ok it was freaky some 5meter long panels (the design was only 45cm high on the down edge of car) without rollup and much slower drying ink (BN20 we use first generation inks) but with the help of a ladder we found a way that works and let it dry without any problems. so iam a big fan of the BN20. service is like 10minutes a week. selgcleaning i think is much less ink than bigger one. and for shirts jobs its perfect. btw if you make not only 1 shirt per month it pays for it self in short time (about 1 year) much faster if you print also for others who make shirts and buyed online there transfers before. something about the speed at last: yes it is slower than bigger ones. but last month we had a hurry up 800 shirt thing where the customer called on monday. we started printing on same day. 2 days after the shirts arrived and everything was ready to print. was more than 4 rolls a 20m to print (exactly 4 3/4 rolls - 95meter) the bottle neck was pressing them on the shirts not printing or cutting (1 hour 1 machine 50 shirts). long things short : i love this machine and what it can make, hoping on a new version with orange and green with truevis in the next years


EDIT: to the ink cost: yes the 220ml inks are not cheap but you can but the bigger ones in. (not needed at the moment) the 220ml is about 65-70 euro here. we calculate to usable amount with 200ml per cartridge so its without win calculation about 35 cent per 1ml ink used. most stuff for shirts here use 1-3 ml of ink not more so ink cost is at under 1 euro most the time, with vinyl and transfervinyl its 2 euro without tax. with all other things like power and everything else we come to a single piece cost of under 8 euro to have it finished (time weeding and pressing most designs under 4minutes) if its same day ready we charge extra but also without there is enough room for errors ;-) and we are not selling a shirt for 20 euro (if its not full graphic same day and extra fine details to weed) so after all yes the mchine costs but it also makes money

 

[kevinj6121]

Hi, iam a signmaker from austria so please dont be angry with my english First , yes we have also bought a BN20 1 1/2 Year ago and i think it was the best decision. We also have an embroidery and print t-shirts and most of the t shirt material is comming in 500mm rolls. Perfect for BN20. and i dont stops a bigger printer and also not every time roll change for 20 shirts on a bigger one. yes it has a cutting feature and if the summa is in work mode we use it but we also dont change material often so its calibrated to the main material and only used if there is no time for cutting on the summa T-Series. So if your main goal is to print stuff for printing on shirts ... perfect! we also bought a 60cm laminator just for the transfer material. its printing 4 hours dry out , putting to laminator and press after. one big advantage is also that the bn20 has a extreme good resolution. while most of the time we print for t shirts in fast mode it happend that we had to print a car design on it. ok it was freaky some 5meter long panels (the design was only 45cm high on the down edge of car) without rollup and much slower drying ink (BN20 we use first generation inks) but with the help of a ladder we found a way that works and let it dry without any problems. so iam a big fan of the BN20. service is like 10minutes a week. selgcleaning i think is much less ink than bigger one. and for shirts jobs its perfect. btw if you make not only 1 shirt per month it pays for it self in short time (about 1 year) much faster if you print also for others who make shirts and buyed online there transfers before. something about the speed at last: yes it is slower than bigger ones. but last month we had a hurry up 800 shirt thing where the customer called on monday. we started printing on same day. 2 days after the shirts arrived and everything was ready to print. was more than 4 rolls a 20m to print (exactly 4 3/4 rolls - 95meter) the bottle neck was pressing them on the shirts not printing or cutting (1 hour 1 machine 50 shirts). long things short : i love this machine and what it can make, hoping on a new version with orange and green with truevis in the next years


EDIT: to the ink cost: yes the 220ml inks are not cheap but you can but the bigger ones in. (not needed at the moment) the 220ml is about 65-70 euro here. we calculate to usable amount with 200ml per cartridge so its without win calculation about 35 cent per 1ml ink used. most stuff for shirts here use 1-3 ml of ink not more so ink cost is at under 1 euro most the time, with vinyl and transfervinyl its 2 euro without tax. with all other things like power and everything else we come to a single piece cost of under 8 euro to have it finished (time weeding and pressing most designs under 4minutes) if its same day ready we charge extra but also without there is enough room for errors ;-) and we are not selling a shirt for 20 euro (if its not full graphic same day and extra fine details to weed) so after all yes the mchine costs but it also makes money

Thank you I appreciate your feedback