S160T vs S2 160T: what's the difference?

[Rayd8]

Hi All, i have an option to buy a used S160T. I currently have a D160R. An S2 160T isn't a real option for my budgetwise, but since this S160T is crossing my path i'm really tempted. I'm just wondering what the difference is between the (original) S160T and the S2 160T?
Thanks for any insights on this.
Ray

 

[balstestrat]

Nevermind I was thinking the even older model with more difference.

 

[FrankW]

The S160T (sold from 2005 to 2012) looks nearly the same as the S2 160T (sold since 2013), with the following main differences:

S has a black and white touchscreen, S2 has a coloured one
S has USB and serial interface, S2 has USB and LAN
On the S2, it is possible to add additional middle pinch rollers in the field

There are some other little differences like different motors and electronic.

The OPOS-Sensor is the same (there are differences in OPOS-CAM only as far as I know), the S can do OPOS XY and OPOS Barcode, but improvements as optimization to OPOS panneling or the movement of the head which are added by firmware upgrades to the S2 are not available anymore for S.

Because the S is now nearly 10 years off the market, they will be out of service soon. The black and white touchscreen is not available anymore now for years, Summa has offered a kit for changing to the coloured touchscreen by replacing the right cover and mainboard, but this is more expensive than the replacement screen. Unfortunately the screen is the part which dies often. Dont now what happens with other parts in the future.

The S is minimum 10 years old (max 17 years). Be aware of that when negotiating the price (the serial number should show year and month of manufacturing). I‘m a summa technician, I have seen older S in fine condition, but others are nearly to break down. While at the older Summasigns the most expensive Part, the tangential head, is commonly the first part who dies, on the S/S1 that is no typical defect.

If you have a look at the used one, check if the motors do some irregular noise, if the contrast of the screen is ok even after a few minutes, if the USB-Port works, and if the OPOS-Sensor lowers correctly (not need multiple tries to lower).

 

[Rayd8]

The S160T (sold from 2005 to 2012) looks nearly the same as the S2 160T (sold since 2013), with the following main differences:

S has a black and white touchscreen, S2 has a coloured one
S has USB and serial interface, S2 has USB and LAN
On the S2, it is possible to add additional middle pinch rollers in the field

There are some other little differences like different motors and electronic.

The OPOS-Sensor is the same (there are differences in OPOS-CAM only as far as I know), the S can do OPOS XY and OPOS Barcode, but improvements as optimization to OPOS panneling or the movement of the head which are added by firmware upgrades to the S2 are not available anymore for S.

Because the S is now nearly 10 years off the market, they will be out of service soon. The black and white touchscreen is not available anymore now for years, Summa has offered a kit for changing to the coloured touchscreen by replacing the right cover and mainboard, but this is more expensive than the replacement screen. Unfortunately the screen is the part which dies often. Dont now what happens with other parts in the future.

The S is minimum 10 years old (max 17 years). Be aware of that when negotiating the price (the serial number should show year and month of manufacturing). I‘m a summa technician, I have seen older S in fine condition, but others are nearly to break down. While at the older Summasigns the most expensive Part, the tangential head, is commonly the first part who dies, on the S/S1 that is no typical defect.

If you have a look at the used one, check if the motors do some irregular noise, if the contrast of the screen is ok even after a few minutes, if the USB-Port works, and if the OPOS-Sensor lowers correctly (not need multiple tries to lower).

Hi Frank, Superdanke fur deine hilfreiche Infos. (That's superthanks for the Infos)

 

[FrankW]

Hi Frank, Superdanke fur deine hilfreiche Infos. (That's superthanks for the Infos)

Immer gern

 

[ProColorGraphics]

The S160T (sold from 2005 to 2012) looks nearly the same as the S2 160T (sold since 2013), with the following main differences:

S has a black and white touchscreen, S2 has a coloured one
S has USB and serial interface, S2 has USB and LAN
On the S2, it is possible to add additional middle pinch rollers in the field

There are some other little differences like different motors and electronic.

The OPOS-Sensor is the same (there are differences in OPOS-CAM only as far as I know), the S can do OPOS XY and OPOS Barcode, but improvements as optimization to OPOS panneling or the movement of the head which are added by firmware upgrades to the S2 are not available anymore for S.

Because the S is now nearly 10 years off the market, they will be out of service soon. The black and white touchscreen is not available anymore now for years, Summa has offered a kit for changing to the coloured touchscreen by replacing the right cover and mainboard, but this is more expensive than the replacement screen. Unfortunately the screen is the part which dies often. Dont now what happens with other parts in the future.

The S is minimum 10 years old (max 17 years). Be aware of that when negotiating the price (the serial number should show year and month of manufacturing). I‘m a summa technician, I have seen older S in fine condition, but others are nearly to break down. While at the older Summasigns the most expensive Part, the tangential head, is commonly the first part who dies, on the S/S1 that is no typical defect.

If you have a look at the used one, check if the motors do some irregular noise, if the contrast of the screen is ok even after a few minutes, if the USB-Port works, and if the OPOS-Sensor lowers correctly (not need multiple tries to lower).

I added extra pinch rollers myself to my S140T. Wasn't that hard.

Mine is ~12 years old and still work awesome. I have replaced one of the motors, which I did myself. Otherwise no issues at all.

 

[Rayd8]

aha so you can add extra pinch rollers to an S140T?
Oh and for info i only now got a 140T (an S1 with the mainboard/color screen kit). Frank do you know if the lan port will work (it's not soldered onto the mainboard but it seems ready to be soldered on there)?
Thanks all

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

If you have a color touch screen, and not a monochromatic touch screen, then you have an S2 machine. You can add additional pinch rollers, which are referred to as media select kits, and you can add as many as you require. Just keep in mind that each additional roller increases your minimum cut width by 2.25", so you may not want to add too many additional rollers if you need to cut narrower width rolls or scrap pieces.

Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions or if there is anything else that I can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[Rayd8]

If you have a color touch screen, and not a monochromatic touch screen, then you have an S2 machine. You can add additional pinch rollers, which are referred to as media select kits, and you can add as many as you require. Just keep in mind that each additional roller increases your minimum cut width by 2.25", so you may not want to add too many additional rollers if you need to cut narrower width rolls or scrap pieces.

Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions or if there is anything else that I can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

Hi Phil, Its an S140 which has been repaired due to fading monochrome screen, as such the mainboard and display has been swapped out. So does that instantly upgrade it to an S2 then?
Minimum width: ok thanks for pointing that out. I prefer to have two middle pinch rollers, just like on my D160. Gives a tad more stability (maybe that's only in my head).
Thanks again for you info,
Thierry

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Your S140-T should already have 4 pinch rollers installed(that's how they come from the factory) and the middle rollers use half pressure and don't really help with tracking unless your material is flexing/puckering in the middle(the middle rollers help keep the material down flatter to the cutter surface to prevent the knife from scratching the material). If you're having a tracking issue, sometimes swapping the inner pinch rollers with the outer pinch rollers can help because the inner rollers should be less worn than the outer rollers. It's a lot less expensive to swap out the outer rollers than it would be to add additional rollers and changing the outer rollers will improve tracking a lot more than adding more rollers(which can sometimes have a negative affect on tracking).

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[ikarasu]

If you have a color touch screen, and not a monochromatic touch screen, then you have an S2 machine. You can add additional pinch rollers, which are referred to as media select kits, and you can add as many as you require. Just keep in mind that each additional roller increases your minimum cut width by 2.25", so you may not want to add too many additional rollers if you need to cut narrower width rolls or scrap pieces.

Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions or if there is anything else that I can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

Curious... why does adding more pinch rollers decrease your cut width?

Can you not move them to the side / out of the way so that theyre not in use like on a graphtec?


We just got a F1612 (Awaiting delivery). I was thinking of ditching the graphtec and getting an S3 if the F1612s workflow is good... I guess theoretically we'd never need to cut thin rolls... but I like how on the graphtec I can load a 60" roll, then just keep "continuing" and I could cut a 6" roll if I wanted to by not using the other pinchwheels

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

Curious... why does adding more pinch rollers decrease your cut width?

Can you not move them to the side / out of the way so that theyre not in use like on a graphtec?


We just got a F1612 (Awaiting delivery). I was thinking of ditching the graphtec and getting an S3 if the F1612s workflow is good... I guess theoretically we'd never need to cut thin rolls... but I like how on the graphtec I can load a 60" roll, then just keep "continuing" and I could cut a 6" roll if I wanted to by not using the other pinchwheels

The outer two rollers need to be on the material and are responsible for tracking, so they cannot be moved to the side. Each pinch roller assembly adds another 2.25" to the minimum width as a result, so it's only recommended to add additional rollers if the media is not staying flat with the 4 rollers that come installed on the machine(motocross/ATV kits, reflective sheeting, etc. would be examples of materials that may need additional rollers to keep the material flat to the table surface while cutting).

Hope the new F1612 works out well for your business and I would be happy to help even if you didn't purchase the equipment from us.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[ikarasu]

The outer two rollers need to be on the material and are responsible for tracking, so they cannot be moved to the side. Each pinch roller assembly adds another 2.25" to the minimum width as a result, so it's only recommended to add additional rollers if the media is not staying flat with the 4 rollers that come installed on the machine(motocross/ATV kits, reflective sheeting, etc. would be examples of materials that may need additional rollers to keep the material flat to the table surface while cutting).

Hope the new F1612 works out well for your business and I would be happy to help even if you didn't purchase the equipment from us.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

ah, On the graphtec you have 3 "pressure settings" for the pinch rollers - Light, Medium and strong. Light will just barelly touch the media... but you can move it around, medium will put a little bit of pressure on it - strong will push it down so much you can't move the media if you tried. The inside rollers are always on medium or light and the outside ones are on strong for the tracking.... but you can change each rollers pressure, or move the rollers you don't want to use to the side (I just keep them in place on light) So I can do a 4" roll if I wanted to (And I have done one!) Even with 6 pinch rollers on the graphtec.


Looks like the Summa is different and the tensions not changed by the pinch rollers themselves... odd! Not really the end of the world though, I'm sure it has its upsides. I'm not too happy with the FC9000's accuracy... The 8600's we had were dead bang on, but it seems like the 9000 is a step back. I went back and fourth with them and their techs for months, had tons of parts replaced... And while it's good most of the time, anything over 3 FT starts to drift... not by much, just a few MM... but it makes doing stickers almost impossible. Happens on multiple 9000's and multiple printers... then when I put the exact same file in our 8600, it works perfect... So I'm thinking of going on the summa bandwagon! Especially now that we'll have a flatbed cutter from them... keep the workflow the same.

I think I looked up pricing from you guys before, sadly being in Canada it didnt make sense You guys should open a Canadian office, I hear nothing but great things about airmark

 

[balstestrat]

Looks like the Summa is different and the tensions not changed by the pinch rollers themselves... odd!

Nah it has two pressure settings for the middle rollers if I remember correctly.
Anyway some rollers have it and middle ones you can lift up if you don't want to use em.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

ah, On the graphtec you have 3 "pressure settings" for the pinch rollers - Light, Medium and strong. Light will just barelly touch the media... but you can move it around, medium will put a little bit of pressure on it - strong will push it down so much you can't move the media if you tried. The inside rollers are always on medium or light and the outside ones are on strong for the tracking.... but you can change each rollers pressure, or move the rollers you don't want to use to the side (I just keep them in place on light) So I can do a 4" roll if I wanted to (And I have done one!) Even with 6 pinch rollers on the graphtec.


Looks like the Summa is different and the tensions not changed by the pinch rollers themselves... odd! Not really the end of the world though, I'm sure it has its upsides. I'm not too happy with the FC9000's accuracy... The 8600's we had were dead bang on, but it seems like the 9000 is a step back. I went back and fourth with them and their techs for months, had tons of parts replaced... And while it's good most of the time, anything over 3 FT starts to drift... not by much, just a few MM... but it makes doing stickers almost impossible. Happens on multiple 9000's and multiple printers... then when I put the exact same file in our 8600, it works perfect... So I'm thinking of going on the summa bandwagon! Especially now that we'll have a flatbed cutter from them... keep the workflow the same.

I think I looked up pricing from you guys before, sadly being in Canada it didnt make sense You guys should open a Canadian office, I hear nothing but great things about airmark

We may just need to open a satellite office up in Canada because we do get a lot of requests, especially on the Summa side, from our friends up north. Seems like the options in Canada are pretty limited for Summa, especially if you need experienced tech support. Always happy to help my fellow Signs101 Summa users however I can, so you can contact me anytime if I can help.

As for the pinch rollers, the middle rollers half a full and half pressure option on the Summa cutters, so they are slightly adjustable to accommodate different materials. I usually only recommend using the middle rollers with thicker or more rigid materials that are flexing and creating a high point that the blade scratches, but I do have companies that I work with that always use all the rollers, so some of it is personal preference. Either way, the Summa S3 would be a nice upgrade from an accuracy standpoint compared to the Graphtec.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[Rayd8]

To come back to my initial question: I bought a repaired S140t which has been repaired with an S2 motherboard and color display (i think this is the solution when one has a black and white display which needs to be replaced). My question is (should anyone with Summa tech roots know about this): the motherboard doesn't have an RJ45 connector, only the USB, even if in the menu all network settings are there. Is this deliberately done? Can i let a qualified repair electroncs firm solder back an rj45 and use it (so guessing that the rj45 has been removed to give a reason to upgrade to a 'real S2 or S3"? Reason why i'm thinking about this route: the usb connection is extremely flimsy, so i will need to resolder a new usb connector on that motherboard soon (no worries, i'm a printer tech so removing that motherboard isn't hard for me and i'll let an electronics company resolder a new usb connector on that expensive motherboard).
Thanks for any insights.

 

[Rayd8]

sorry 'server error' while posting, but it seems that it does the post

 

[Rayd8]

sorry (server error' while posting, but it seems that it does the post

 

[Pauly]

Curious... why does adding more pinch rollers decrease your cut width?

Can you not move them to the side / out of the way so that theyre not in use like on a graphtec?


We just got a F1612 (Awaiting delivery). I was thinking of ditching the graphtec and getting an S3 if the F1612s workflow is good... I guess theoretically we'd never need to cut thin rolls... but I like how on the graphtec I can load a 60" roll, then just keep "continuing" and I could cut a 6" roll if I wanted to by not using the other pinchwheels

you dont need the S3 to use the twin workflow. there's ways to do it with the graphtec. Send me an email if you're interested. I can demonstrate many ways of doing this. We had the twin workflow with the FC9000 + Colex and now the S3 TC160 + Colex

 

[Pauly]

Curious... why does adding more pinch rollers decrease your cut width?

Can you not move them to the side / out of the way so that theyre not in use like on a graphtec?


We just got a F1612 (Awaiting delivery). I was thinking of ditching the graphtec and getting an S3 if the F1612s workflow is good... I guess theoretically we'd never need to cut thin rolls... but I like how on the graphtec I can load a 60" roll, then just keep "continuing" and I could cut a 6" roll if I wanted to by not using the other pinchwheels

you dont need the S3 to use the twin workflow. there's ways to do it with the graphtec. Send me an email if you're interested. I can demonstrate many ways of doing this. We had the twin workflow with the FC9000 + Colex and now the S3 TC160 + Colex