s80600 / onyx thrive 19 - color shift on reprint

[DAVID MARSHALL]

I suspect its going to be a change in the output intent, colormetic, relative colormetric or absolute. Go back to the first print settings and check that it hasn't been changed.

 

[ColorCrest]

I don't have onyx test prints to compare. But I have these spot color charts we printed about a month ago. I'm holding those up to what I printed 2 minutes ago. All of these spot colors, which are mostly pantones, look exactly the same to me

It's too bad that your sudden trouble is printing common grays and you don't have routine references to test against because, again, it's the easiest way to judge and it's industry standard to do so.

A point of interest to illustrate the shortcomings of human vision, see the attached image...

...the A and B blocks are exactly the same hue and brightness.

So, if your colors match from before to after, that's fine but we're still after fixing the grays. Right?

What's your best guess so far?

 

[Signed Out]

My best guess, something along the lines of what David marshal said above. That rendering intent has somehow been changed? Or for some reason rip/printer deciding cut off an ink channel or processing the job differently or something?

In onyx job editor, printer Media settings tab I've tried changing the rendering intent to all of those settings and it doesn't fix it. Have tried turning ICC profiles off, back on, selected specific ones.

Anything else I should try?

 

[Signed Out]

It's too bad that your sudden trouble is printing common grays and you don't have routine references to test against because, again, it's the easiest way to judge and it's industry standard to do so.

A point of interest to illustrate the shortcomings of human vision, see the attached image...

View attachment 163920

...the A and B blocks are exactly the same hue and brightness.

So, if your colors match from before to after, that's fine but we're still after fixing the grays. Right?

What's your best guess so far?

 

[ColorCrest]

My best guess, something along the lines of what David marshal said above. That rendering intent has somehow been changed?

The two common rendering intents of perceptual and colorimetric do not change hues of neutrals as it's not their job. The rendering intent of absolute is far out of the scope of this conversation and problem.

 

[ColorCrest]

Or for some reason rip/printer deciding cut off an ink channel

This is where recalibration would help. The grays are not getting enough warm colored ink or too much cool colored ink compared to the earlier prints.

 

[Signed Out]

They were originally printed with perceptual I believe. Not at the computer now to check. Do you know what settings in onyx could possibly have changed the appearance of my pri nts so I can try that?

The two common rendering intents of perceptual and colorimetric do not change hues of neutrals as it's not their job. The rendering intent of absolute is far out of the scope of this conversation and problem.

 

[Signed Out]

This is where recalibration would help. The grays are not getting enough warm colored ink or too much cool colored ink compared to the earlier prints.

This sounds exactly like what I'm looking at. What could cause that to these reprinted jobs but not to spot colors or other jobs?

 

[ColorCrest]

processing the job differently

Of the printer side of the workflow, the machine operator needs to sure of settings that the later settings match the earlier settings. A matter of human error or not.

Of the prepress side of the workflow, that operator needs to sure of earlier color management settings vs any later settings. For example, you've mentioned "files are difficult to save." How can one be sure of settings from earlier to latter? Any new or different work stations involved now compared to earlier, etc.?

What could cause that to these reprinted jobs but not to spot colors or other jobs?

I'm not convinced the spot colors are actually matching by judging via this internet browser and my Mac's digital color meter.

That aside, I've noticed you've uploaded a photo of two prints sitting on a light table. The light table lamps are significantly blue and the overhead lamps are significantly warm. That's a poor environment to judge and control color. Maybe try the hardware store to get some GE Chroma 50 lamps which are meant to be white. They last twice as long as traditional cool white and warm white lamps. If yours are already LED, I recommend replacing those with D5000 equivalent which are also meant to be white.

 

[ColorCrest]

Do you know what settings in onyx could possibly have changed the appearance of my pri nts so I can try that?

I'm guessing no setting in Onyx have been changed if, in fact, you've just reprinted an earlier existing RIP file. The printer is just not delivering exactly the same amounts of ink colors to the media now as before.

Again, keeping the printer in it's calibrated state is the norm. You'll need the common hardware measuring device (comes with superior software, too) to perform it's part of the task.

Good luck.

 

[Signed Out]

I'm guessing no setting in Onyx have been changed if, in fact, you've just reprinted an earlier existing RIP file. The printer is just not delivering exactly the same amounts of ink colors to the media now as before.

Again, keeping the printer in it's calibrated state is the norm. You'll need the common hardware measuring device (comes with superior software, too) to perform it's part of the task.

Good luck.

This is more helpful. So maybe the printer is not "delivering" the same as last week. But the spot colors printouts are the same.. so how could that be? That's what I don't get. And I really don't get how re calibrating would play into that case.

 

[Signed Out]

Do any stores carry x-rite's or another spectrometer? Can't really wait for one to be shipped.

I'm guessing no setting in Onyx have been changed if, in fact, you've just reprinted an earlier existing RIP file. The printer is just not delivering exactly the same amounts of ink colors to the media now as before.

Again, keeping the printer in it's calibrated state is the norm. You'll need the common hardware measuring device (comes with superior software, too) to perform it's part of the task.

Good luck.

 

[taggianto]

Are you sure that the first print is good? You said you've done this print multiple times before, do you have another sample? Perhaps what you're printing now is "correct" and the previous print is the one that's off?

 

[ColorCrest]

Do any stores carry x-rite's or another spectrometer?

Is B&H in NYC or Samy's in LA close by you? How about your printer sales dealer?

 

[ColorCrest]

Maybe of interest to visitors of this thread is a link to a short and simple Onyx document "How to Recalibrate with the ONYX Software"...

http://onyx.contactdesigndev.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Recalibration1.pdf

Notice especially a certain paragraph in document...

"Although Recalibration can be done in Media Manager, it’s probably more convenient for the printer operator to do this in conjunction with daily job submission work. So Onyx has added a toolbar button in Rip Queue to do recalibration right from the queue."

 

[Signed Out]

Is B&H in NYC or Samy's in LA close by you? How about your printer sales dealer?

2.5 hours from NYC, but they closed at 1pm today. I called them at noon, they had not options to overnight one to me. Had a buddy in the city run over to pick it up for me. He didn't make it until 1:05 and they were closed.. So no luck there.

 

[Signed Out]

Grimco hooking it up overnighting an i1 basic pro3.
Any tips on how to proceed once it arrives so I can get this job to print?
After that I'll dive into making custom profiles, but for now, fixing my output to match the original vans is priority #1.

 

[IndySignPro]

Do any stores carry x-rite's or another spectrometer? Can't really wait for one to be shipped.

Unfortunately, I do not think this is going to fix your issue, only create more as you will be "chasing the rabbit". We have been having this same issue since our S80600 was new (2.5 years). We have printed files one after the other, media never removed, no settings changed, files ripped at the same time, less than 5 minutes between prints and had completely different color outputs. Epson blames Onyx, Onyx blames Epson. Epson has replaced heads, carriage, main board, and full ink sets and not been able to correct the issue. Onyx tells us to calibrate between prints, which is not feasible at all. We have been forced to print anything "important" on our 9 year old Roland as we can print a patch today for something we produced years ago... and it matches. Good Luck.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

Like to know how you are making out on this. Did you find the problem.

 

[rwinkie]

I know this is a little old, but I thought I'd share that I'm having the same issues. It's mostly when the printer is cold and one profile that is intentionally highly saturated. First print has perfect greys that match the calibrated monitor. Print a little while later and tat grey is full on brown. It's absolutely maddening. Epson tech suggested it might be a blocked tube in the dampener. Seems to be exclusively related to red tones, specifically adding too much red. I've been managing by printing files that don't seem to have issues first until it's warmed up, then printing my sensitive files. The high saturation profile is great for getting those almost neon colors that my customers drool over, however I've had to switch back to a more accurate media profile. I can still tweak it so that I get brighter colors, but not as bright as the other profile. I should note that when I originally created the profile and did my eval images I did not have the brownish grey problem. I too noticed that I did not have the issue when printing swatch books. I'm honestly not sure if it's an Onyx issue or printer issue. I had profiled some new materials recently and thought I was going insane because I could not get even a smidge of accurate colors, and learning this has made me feel a little less crazy, but still no solution. Other than now I get weekly emails from Epson trying to get me to buy an extended warranty that costs more per year than replacing both heads.