SAI Flexi 10 Major Disappointment!

[greysquirrel]

So I am a little late and a little confused...you are upset with Flexi because you could not get support on Version 10?...Aren't they on version 19? Your immediate fix could have been downloading a demo of version 19...at least you knew the eco system. I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on to expect a company to support a product that many versions behind.
Onyx would do the same thing and I don't fault them either. I believe their support ends at version 10 or 11. You are a business owner...keep your software up to date and you won't end up watching your employees stand around. Do you let adobe expire?
It could be a windows update that interfered with your software...

The fine programmers at Onyx, Flexi, Caldera wake up everyday to support their current products. They don't have the resources to support something 5 years old. Do you give out free banners when it fades and tears?

I can appreciate your frustration...just not sure its pointing in the right direction.

 

[Reveal1]

You gotta understand, some people are just idiots.

Sorry Tex, I don't understand. Could someone please explain?

 

[rjssigns]

PC my friend, Apple products are for people that don't know how to use a computer to its potential.

Global statement. Also denigrating. Now please explain it.

 

[ProPDF]

employees are standing around!

Yikes!

Wait until you get invested in Onyx and see their fee structure. Ask them about their $995 insurance upgrade coverage because they roll out 2-3 updates per year that will out date your new software possibly the very next day you buy it. Hope that windies 10 don't auto update overnight and now only works with that newer Onyx version only. Also ask them about their $85 tech support fee per ticket. Then ask them what is the cost if you get a new machine not on the original purchase driver list. If you are pissed about Flexi 10 wait until you walk in your shop and due to a auto update you now have to randomly fork over $1k to keep your shop running or get emo and dump this thousands of dollar investment while yet again employees are standing around.

That new Flexi 19 was a disaster on first release but if you call and ask for the old Flexi 12 it works great and for $50 a month you can't beat it with 5 drivers of any machine you want. I do believe they had some fixes on Flexi 19 since we tried it but we don't want to mess with their dither switch at the momento.

Good luck but be careful the grass might not be greener on the other side.

 

[Boudica]

Sorry Tex, I don't understand. Could someone please explain?

The IRS will be calling you soon with an explanation.

 

[Reveal1]

You're not very bright...

The IRS will be calling you soon with an explanation.

I don't get it, they call every day asking to verify my social security number. They threatened to close me down if I don't pay back taxes. But how can I do that? My people are standing around waiting for our software to work with our Commodore 64. If IRS would only do their part to make those greedy corporate bastards support their software, we could pay our bills and the credit card number I gave them last week would work.

 

[Boudica]

Reveal - fell out of my chair laughing so hard. Thank you

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I don't get it, they call every day asking to verify my social security number. They threatened to close me down if I don't pay back taxes. But how can I do that? My people are standing around waiting for our software to work with our Commodore 64. If IRS would only do their part to make those greedy corporate bastards support their software, we could pay our bills and the credit card number I gave them last week would work.

You're supposed to pay them with iTunes gift cards... that's what I did and they got off my back. And karma has it that hours after taking care of that business, I got an order for 100 banners in my e-mail!

 

[Bobby H]

Not offering support is a ploy to force folks to continue to purchase more products. They only need to produce one version that they continue to sell and support.

That's one of the most ridiculous, unrealistic statements I have ever read relating to computer software. Just how exactly would a software company expect to stay in business following that model? I'd like to know how they would continue to bring in revenue, pay the light bill and make their payroll for more than a couple years doing that, much less a freaking decade.

If the software company produces only one version of an application the customers are going to buy that software only one time and that's it. The market is only so big and there are only so many potential customers out there, particularly for a very niche category like sign making. The only way a software company gets its customers to pay them money more than once (and keep operational revenue flowing) is by developing new versions with various improvements.

Even companies who provide "open source" software have to develop new versions, not just to add new features, but also to maintain compatibility with current operating systems like Windows. The companies providing that "free" software all have an angle for getting revenue. Some ask users directly for monetary donations. Or the software would be used as a "loss leader" for selling something else. Blackmagic Design makes some great video editing software. The basic version of DaVinci Resolve is free. The full "studio" version is just $299 -a bargain compared to some of its competitors. But the software advertises their professional level video production and editing hardware, which they sell for a pretty penny.

When you spend thousands of dollars on a car do they tell you they cant work on it because they dont support your car anymore?

If your car is not under warranty the dealer is certainly going to make you pay to get it fixed. If the make and model of the car is old enough, yes, the dealer is going to tell you to find a different mechanic who can work on it. And that can be a realy dicey situation given the fact most automobiles have been increasingly computerized over the past 30+ years. Newer makes of vehicles are even requiring tools unique to that particular brand of vehicle. So, really, the car thing is a poor analogy.

Apple products are for people that don't know how to use a computer to its potential.

That's another very ridiculous statement.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Even companies who provide "open source" software have to develop new versions, not just to add new features, but also to maintain compatibility with current operating systems like Windows. The companies providing that "free" software all have an angle for getting revenue. Some ask users directly for monetary donations. Or the software would be used as a "loss leader" for selling something else. Blackmagic Design makes some great video editing software. The basic version of DaVinci Resolve is free. The full "studio" version is just $299 -a bargain compared to some of its competitors. But the software advertises their professional level video production and editing hardware, which they sell for a pretty penny.

I don't think DaVinci Resolve is actually open source, even open source in quotes. It is actually proprietary.

Typically you have donations, charge for tech support or some actually charge for pre-compiled binaries (Ardour being one, RHEL (or is it IBMEL now, being sarcastic here in acknowledgment of IBM buying RH) is the most well known open source OS that charged (in the form of service contracts) for pre-compiled binaries, could just go with CentOS and got essential RHEL(IBMEL) for free). Armory Game Engine (add on for Blender 2.8 since the mainstream removal of BGE, even though there is a project that brought BGE back) is another one that costs for the pre-compiled version. Armor Paint (alternative to Substance Painter and doing pretty well since Adobe's acquisition of the Substance suite of programs) which is also linked to Armory Game Engine (same single dev) is a charge for the pre-compiled version.

Open source is not synonymous with free as in free beer. Common misconception, but not the same thing. More often then not, they are free, but they don't have to be. The only requirement for something to be open source is that the source code is available and able to be edited. Source available is not the same thing as open source as well, from a technical perspective (I can't remember which game engine, but one of them is considered source available).

 

[player]

The LAST THING I want is the latest version of Flexi. Or any software.

 

[Bobby H]

I don't think DaVinci Resolve is actually open source, even open source in quotes. It is actually proprietary.

For end users it's still the same result: FREE. Nevertheless the fact is still 100% there of a company using "free" software as a means to sell something else (some of which costs a LOT of money). Google does it with a bunch of their stuff. Other companies do it. They have a revenue model behind it. A bunch of back and forth hair splitting over the term "open source" and what software qualifies as that is very off topic -which is one reason why I used quotes to frame that term in my previous post. I couldn't care less about the semantics of properly using the "open source" term when making a point about something else.

The real point was the ridiculousness of the OP's assertion that a software company like SAi should only sell one version of their graphics application and support that application indefinitely. Never mind how the company is going to survive for over ten freaking years without a revenue stream (and all employees basically working for free) until that day that he needs help out of a jam for using virtually dead software on I don't know what kind of computer gear.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

For end users it's still the same result: FREE.

Oh no, they are very different outside of they may both be free as in cost. For the end user, there are huge differences between the two. Now, a specific end user may not be able to yoke those extra abilities for whatever reason, depending on the development model, but they are there. Or they may not care to know about the differences. That's their loss. Knowledge is half the battle.

Even in this instance, the differences could lead to a widely different result, one that may even be to the OP's liking, if there was a viable open source RIP. The only one that I am aware of hasn't had any work done on it since 2015, IIRC.

I couldn't care less about the semantics of properly using the "open source" term when making a point about something else.

If one is using something to drive home a point, directly related or not, wouldn't it be a good thing to know at least the semantics that apply to how one is using it?

Even considering this:

Nevertheless the fact is still 100% there of a company using "free" software as a means to sell something else (some of which costs a LOT of money). Google does it with a bunch of their stuff. Other companies do it. They have a revenue model behind it.

Not all open source projects have revenue models, not even donations. I do not know of a company producing proprietary software (free or not) that doesn't have a revenue model behind it. Be it getting info about you that they can sell, or trying to sell a more feature rich product. Even those two models aren't present for the vast majority of open source software (and gathering info on a user is usually really frowned upon for advocates of open source (but then if there is enough of a community desire, someone could strip that out of the program, try that with a proprietary piece of software). There are some (with hocking extra features), but it isn't like it is with a proprietary software company. Some of those proprietary companies do both.

As a group that deals with software as a significant tool in our operations, to me, it would behoove to know some of the semantics. Knowledge brings power (well accurate knowledge anyway), protection from being hit in instances like this.

I actually do agree with you when it comes to proprietary software vendors and the monetary model that the have in place. I agree 100%. The whole reason for their being (the software oem) is to make money in some shape, form or fashion. That isn't always the case in open source. So to think of them as similar just because they both may be free as in cost, is leaving a lot of things off the table that if a user knows about, they have more power to take advantage of the abilities of one over the other.

As to if one type of software is general better over the other or whatever (which seems to change depending on what software and version that one is talking about on both sides of the argument), that's a whole nother can of worms.

 

[visual800]

is it possible for you to remove flexi from your machine and then reinstall it and DO NOT register it that way you can keep using it?

 

[Niun]

I was just thinking the cost of Onyx upgrades and contract costs are like 10x more expensive than the current 20 dollars a month sub SAI offers for full support and always having the most current software. I don't think I have ever had to email them... Call Flexi on the phone, wait 2 or 3 minutes and get my problem solved.

Sorry you had such a shity experience, but the attitude doesn't help the situation at all.

 

[Bobby H]

is it possible for you to remove flexi from your machine and then reinstall it and DO NOT register it that way you can keep using it?

It can certainly be done with an ancient version of Flexi, using parallel port dongles and running on Windows XP. But that may only apply to versions like Flexi 7 and going back. Did Flexi 10 require online activation (in addition to the dongle)? Flexi Cloud and Flexi 12 both use activation rather than dongles. Our shop hasn't upgraded its Flexi licenses to version 19.

I was just thinking the cost of Onyx upgrades and contract costs are like 10x more expensive than the current 20 dollars a month sub SAI offers for full support and always having the most current software. I don't think I have ever had to email them... Call Flexi on the phone, wait 2 or 3 minutes and get my problem solved.

My shop uses Onyx Thrive to drive a pair of HP Latex printers. There's not really anything a user can do for creating sign designs in Thrive. And, as best as I can tell, Onyx 19 is pretty much the same thing. One needs to use other graphics applications to create the designs and then use Onyx software to print those designs.

Flexi is a bit different given it has an actual sign design environment, although it's a design environment that is still pretty freaking primitive in some respects. Full OpenType feature support is still lacking, nearly 20 years after Adobe started making such typographic features commonplace. And now we have OpenType Variable fonts and SVG Color fonts to add to the mix. Type is just one of the disparities.

 

[michael Mahoney]

Last week we had an error message with our Flexi 10 software and it wouldn't boot up. We contacted Fellers support that told us they offered no support, but suggested that we buy the newer version or to try contacting SAI Flexi about the issue! After days of waiting, we finally heard back from SAI FLexi via email. Keep in mind, production has stopped, employees are standing around! They didn't offer any type of support, and I mean none, only to buy the newer version! Does anyone else see were this is going? This is the very type of corporate abuse that our country needs to stop and put end to! In a panic, we searched for other Rip Software used by professionals and downloaded Onyx's Thrive 30 trial to keep production going. It is absolutely awesome and the learning curve was minimal, prints and colors look great! After the horrible and incredibly disappointing service and complete neglect of support coupled with the totalitarian-forcing to buy, buy, buy from both companies, I will no longer "support" them and their products. I guess its a two way street and a hard lesson learned. Don't be surprised to see future expressions of experience. Grimco sells Onyx and they have always had amazing support, service and products. They told me that they have a payment plan that I can apply for to make it manageble to make the purchase... goodbye fellers and SAI Flexi!

maybe try unistalling the flexi and reinstalling it ?????????????

 

[Bly]

Surely the cost of employees standing around is greater than the cost of a current version of production software.