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Sandblasting & Gilding Granite - Questions..

iSign

iSign

New Member
I've put off posting this for days because I've been busy, and now I'm going to rush this post up because my employee will be here in 10 minutes...

but I need to quote a job that involves some tasks I've not yet done.

The granite has been picked out, still sits on the property of the stone supplier, and they can give me a quote to cut it to shape (2 signs about 40" x 70", rectangular with arched top)

I have a guy I usually sub out blasting to, who has already given me a quote for blasting.

The signs will be installed on a concrete slap already waiting in a finished rock wall & a rock arch will go on top after the sign is in place.

I've done a little bit of gold leafing, and I'm not expecting this to be a tough surface to gild, but that is one area I'd certainly be glad to hear from someone who has done this before.

I'm not at all sure how I should mount the Granite to the concrete, so this is another area I'd like to hear from someone with experience.

Pricing is another area I'm going to be interested in talking to an experienced person about, though probably not here in the open forums..

WHAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW IS IF ANY ONE OF MY FRIENDS HERE HAS DONE ENOUGH OF THESE STEPS THAT HAS TIME TO LET ME CALL AND GO OVER A FEW QUESTIONS ON THE PHONE??

...but of course I'd also like to see an informative thread that involves various opinions, and discussion, including me posting pics of the rock wall, concrete slab, the layout etc... and hopefully eventually a nice job done (profitably) by yours truly :thumb:

OH ONE MORE THING... they really might be interested in dimensional letters surface mounted, or stud mounted to the granite.. but at first they asked for a sandblasted letter... and then they said they were told the dimensional letters would be a bad idea because all the stud holes would lead to the granite cracking.. and I think I know who told them that & I'm suspicious it was said more to steer them into what that person wanted to sell them, rather then because the statement was true... so I want to ask about that too.
 
Si Allen

Si Allen

New Member
According to Rick Glawson ... when gilding exterior stone ... use shellac as a 1st coat, before sizing .

I did a couple that way ... and no failures.
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Years ago, we did quite a few signs where we blasted out granite and marble stones. The surfaces were polished much like a tombstone. The blasted area was kinda porous and didn't show off the gold all that well. The surface was too irregular. The gold never looked bright like when doing normal gilding. We found in some instances that mixing gold metallic with some other colors almost looked better in the long run. If you're gilding a polished surface.... no problem. Use all of your normal procedures.

Talk to your stone supplier about mounting the granite to cement. I'm sure they do this quite often in cemeteries.


As for your drilling into granite, I do believe this to be an easy task , if you have the right tools. again, I'd ask your stone supplier.

Also, there's a member here Zama-something that might be able to help you better. If you want to talk.... PM me and I'll give ya my phone number for what little assistance I might be.
 
round man

round man

New Member
you don't say if the surface is polished and or matt Doug,....either way Si is correct in that any stone surface has to be sealed and primed before you lay down any size,....the surface of the size will react with the leaf like that of a mirror if it is rough the gild will look rough and flat/matt. If it is like a piece of polished glass it will look like a mirror and or matt glass gild,....if the gilding is in any manner where people can touch it,assume they will and clear the gild,..if this is not a factor then don't bother the gold will hold up just as well without a clearcoat if applied properly. other than the previous good advice here I kinda think you are on your own,..back when I had a tombstone business next door to my sign shop in the eighties they used a gold paint made specifically for painting tombstone lettering that had been blasted below the surface of monuments and like any other gold of the time it was bronze based and tarnished,..I would like to think there is a mica based gold out there that will not tarnish these days and would hold up a bit longer,..

The only other option I have for you would be to attach a plaque to the stone of some other substrate that can be gilded by normal means and still hold up to the elements. Usually bronze is the substrate of choice here,.....
 
wildside

wildside

New Member
Years ago i worked for a tombstone place and we did alot of countertops also with the occasional sign thrown in.

Drilling the granite is just time consuming, a high quality diamond bit is a must with plenty of water. Mounting dimensional letters to it is fairly simple and will not crack the granite unless forced to. You never mentioned the thickness of the granite but assuming your using standard 2" thick slab, you will not want your holes any deeper than 1" max. A good epoxy will hold the studs no problem. i prefer "west system" epoxy.

Mounting a slab of granite to anything is best done by using the same studs for the front on the back, and have a support structure under it and mortar it all together like a brick layer. The weight of the granite will become a issue quickly with ever square foot of size.

as far as the goldleaf part, not a clue..... lithochrome is what is sprayed into the sandblasted areas of the stone to seal and color it, usually has to be touched up every 10-15 years minimum.
 
schramm

schramm

New Member
I sandblast and gild a lot and I like Rick Glawson's method but you can get a brighter gold (compo leaf) if you spray paint the area with gold spray paint instead of shellac and then oil size followed by composition leaf (no need for real gold). Once you have the gold applied for 24 hours you can apply by brush 2 coats of shellac followed (about 4 hours later) with a marine varnish which should be gloss.

As for applying that to the concrete, have them do it as that is a bad thing to get yourself involved in.

If you need help let me know and I can walk you through supplies and any other info you need.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
so, I was rushing when I posted, but I am interested in selling the client on the possibility of raised letters.

If the granite is about 4' x 6', and the layout is not a lot of copy or graphics, what do others think about shallow gilded blasting, vs. gilding a nice 1" thick letter?

What opinions do any of you have on dimensional letters being gold on the face only? Is that ever a suitable looking alternative to save on gilding costs? If not, any suggestions on the best material for a 1" thick dimensional letter to be gilded on face and sides?

Are custom solid brass letters an alternative that ever makes sense for a client asking for gold?

I have drilled 3/4" thick holes through huge slabs of granite already installed on a wall, so I had been made to feel comfortable with that not resulting in damage to the granite, so I wouldn't see any reason to fear some stud mounted letters really.

If I wanted to flush mount the lettering, would people still use studs, or would an epoxy work well instead?

I know some folks think a company shouldn't bid on a job they don't know how to do, but there isn't really anyone else around here with that much experience on the more high end stuff, and I think I am as qualified as anyone to learn new stuff.. but i want to learn from sufficient research, not from mistakes.

Gino, I will pm you for a phone number. Schramm, I looked at your website. I visit my mom every year, 90 minutes from you, so I'll ask if you want a visit from a sign guy next time i'm out there. I might ask you some more stuff about this job too..

oh, I forgot to add... the granite is polished on the face. I will post proof I assembled from the layout I was shown.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
Mike Paul said:
I agree, but maybe too much info for the free side of the site...
Click to expand...


bumping for more feedback (I hope)...

...and to comment that I don't personally agree with the concept of the need for premium topics all the time. On pricing, I can understand it... but on asking for helpful tips.. I can't really see why this should matter... there are more people here if I ask everyone for help, instead of the smaller group of premium members... and besides the small fee I pay to be a premium member, I think the larger part of my contributions is helping other people, which goes back to a time this site didn't even have a paying opportunity... things were simpler then..

anyway, if someone can help me with more information & is willing to help me, but for whatever reason doesn't want to risk sharing the helpful information where outsiders might see it.. please pm me & I will be grateful for any opinions.

(oh, forgot to post the layout... I'll do that momentarily)
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
This is probably beyond any newbie or end-user out there, but I too think this should probably be tucked away a little better.

However, not in discussing techniques or how-to’s…… don’t you think you might be trying to achieve something that is possible backwards ?? In other words….. if you have a hugely expensive background piece, why would you want to cover up the beauty of it with even more elaborate gilded letters ?? Possibly some anodized letters or something downplayed a little, but maybe once we see the layout, we’ll have a better understanding….. anyway, me. :banghead:
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
here is the layout:

granitesign.jpg


Tonight or tomorrow I will start another thread in the premium section.
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
Thanks Rex,
I just got off the phone with Ron Percell at letterhead Sign Supply ...that guy is such a wealth of information!! (when you do call him, make sure you have time to chat... he can tell you the history of every product, it's usage history & the alternative products used since the last century...


iSign said:
Tonight or tomorrow I will start another thread in the premium section.
Click to expand...

ok, gonna try to put something over there now...
 
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