Need Help selling files to competitor/customer

[bigben]

So we have done 2 murals for a customer (company own by the government) and we were hire by the contractor to do the job. The design of those murals were 100% custom and we had to make many modifications requested by the designer and customer. We ended up with 4 hours design time extra. We knew a new project would come up so we could put the extra design time on the next job and the designer agreed with us.

So we bid on the next job but it's not the same contractor that win the bid and want to use another print shop to print and install the 4 murals this time. Now the designer is asking to have the files and give them to the other print shop.

The designer firm is a good customer for us. I don't want them to be in troubles, but I don't want to give the files either. So I was thinking of maybe sell the files for the lost time we have put into the design.

How should I manage this?

 

[Gino]

So, what do you have in writing pertaining to your predicament ??

 

[bigben]

So, what do you have in writing pertaining to your predicament ??

The only thing we have on our proof paper is that we own the design. Nothing more.

 

[AKwrapguy]

While I understand your issue, we've all been there but is it worth it? What do you charge for design time and will this damage your relationship with the client so that they might not come back to you? How much money have they brought into your shop already what's the potential for them to bring more? Are the changes something that the designer can do?

Sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[papabud]

you could say you own the files and you can try to charge for them. but i think this will be a fight.
you can just send them the files and let them know you like them and normally charge for this. but you wont for them this time.
you can charge a fee for file transfer. to cd or to send the files. it wont be much so i would wave that fee for a good customer. one shop i worked for charged a $10 fee just to burn a cd no matter how much was on it.
either way if its a good customer treat it like you are doing something nice for them and it will go a long way.
they know you was going to add in design time on the second job. talk to them and ask them if you can "sell" them the files to recoup that time

 

[Gino]

Like he said, sometimes it's not worth creating waves if it's a good customer.

Have they done it to you in the past ??
Can they go to the new contractor and talk on your behalf ??
Can you sharpen your pencil ??

See if you can get the job back by maybe saying, well, if the other company had the extra hours we had in on it, they'd be above my price..... or isn't that the case ??

 

[Rick]

Who did the design? If you did the design from start to finish, this is a no-brainer... charge them...

Did a designer do the design and you modified it too make it producible?
So you did the revisions thinking that you could tack it on to the next job?

If you modified an existing design and you agreed to add it to the next job, seems like you assumed some level of risk for it not going well. I myself do not allow any client to stick their finger into my business. ff I was going to risk anything, it has to be spelled out carefully... and my rate goes up. If you did not have a plan on how you would be compensated if it went bad, then I would talk to them about the lost time and go from there... if I expect to get more work from the designer, I might eat it and a cheap lesson learned...

 

[Marlene]

it sounds like you just modified their design, is this correct or did you totally design it? if it was their design and you modified it, I assume you charged for that so I would give it to them. if not, things could get sticky if you weren't clear as to who owns that design and the files.

 

[2B]

While I understand your issue, we've all been there but is it worth it? What do you charge for design time and will this damage your relationship with the client so that they might not come back to you? How much money have they brought into your shop already what's the potential for them to bring more? Are the changes something that the designer can do?

Sometimes the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

It is fine edge that we all walk.

What we have come to realize over the years is for us it is best to break the services down into 3 categories

• Design
• Productions
• Installation / Maintenance

In this case I would reply back that since you have already invested X amount of time for the design work, you will continue to design for X amount and send the files to the other shop for production / installation
all the while keeping the copyright tag on all communications

something to the effect
This email and / or attachments may not be forwarded, printed, scanned or altered in any way without written permission of creator.
All artwork / designs / layouts are copyrighted and the property of XXXXXXXX.

 

[Johnny Best]

Everyone has been there and giving good advice. Just be honest with the client you want to remain on good terms with. Tell him you want x amount and feel it fair for you to get it since you did spend the time. Or have the other company to give you the money since they will be doing the job instead of you.
If no one agrees to pay you tell them you do not have the files but that is not being honest.
Sounds like your going to have to give them the extra artwork for free and chalk it up as not making that mistake again.

 

[bigben]

So to answer some questions. Yes the design is 100% created by us (all vector). There was no image purchased to make this design. We have a contract sent with all quote saying that we own any design made by us. I can win back the job, because it's for a company own by the government. I know there was just 200$ difference between me and the other shop for a 5k$ job, so it would be very easy to match it. But I can't.

I've ended up going to the designer office and told them for creating this design we were X amount of hours over the original bid determined by X amount of dollars. The designer will try to wave some design fees from the other shop and give the file directly to the customer in case they want to use it in the future. Now we are waiting for the customer answer.

 

[visual800]

I understand your situation. It sounds like you are good with a certain contractor BUT in this case that contractor did not get this job. SO the new guy is asking for your files to complete a new mural.......NO!

The government is not loyal to anyone except the lowest bid on totem pole. As you mentioned you lost a bid because he bid $200 lower. YOU did the work and you need to be compensated OR no one gets files!

 

[mark galoob]

just nicely ask the new guy how they would like to pay for it cash or credit. They will hem and haw but I'd stand my ground and nicely remind them time how much extra time the design took.


M

 

[Ready]

So we have done 2 murals for a customer (company own by the government) and we were hire by the contractor to do the job. The design of those murals were 100% custom and we had to make many modifications requested by the designer and customer. We ended up with 4 hours design time extra. We knew a new project would come up so we could put the extra design time on the next job and the designer agreed with us.

So we bid on the next job but it's not the same contractor that win the bid and want to use another print shop to print and install the 4 murals this time. Now the designer is asking to have the files and give them to the other print shop.

The designer firm is a good customer for us. I don't want them to be in troubles, but I don't want to give the files either. So I was thinking of maybe sell the files for the lost time we have put into the design.

How should I manage this?

These are business people and I'm sure they don't expect the firms and companies they do business with to give away products and services for free, and they certainly don't give their services away for free.

It's 4 fours of design time... make out the invoice for the time at your company rate, add and so a discount and politely submit the invoice. It they question it, simply explain the time and effort your company invested in the design aspects of the project.

I'm sure their designer will understand and the company should as well. It they push back, I would politely ask what they think is a fair charge for the time and effort you invested in the final, approved graphics that helped make the job perfect in the customers eyes.

That's all I have to say about that....

Thanks... Bob P

 

[Johnny Best]

At first post you said you modified their design at a cost of $200. Now you say it is your design, in vectors.
So how was the other company going to print the work without files, was their bid based on getting your design files. Sounds complicated with all the parties now involved, good luck getting the extra money for your work.

 

[HandsomeBob]

In the good old days when someone wanted a sign it was hand produced. There were no computers or files involved so when the client wanted the files there was nothing to give them.

I am sure that everyone on the other side believes that the cost of the files was included in the price they paid you for your work. Sign + files + your time to do the file modifications was all included in the price they originally paid you.

Give them the files. You have nothing to gain and everything to loose. Learn the lesson and move on. If you don't acquiesce you will not be allowed to participate in bids.

Put a disclaimer on you bid sheet and in you email signature for all quoted to protect you in the future.

 

[AKwrapguy]

We recently had a similar issue with our municipality. They farm out the printing of the police vehicle every few years and take lowest bid. The problem is that they always lose the print files and ask the last company who had the contract to sent them to the whomever is awarded the new contract. So there's always time invested into tweaks and changes.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Just remind him you still haven't recouped all the design fee. Tell him you will release it to him if he can pay the additional amount for the design time. Never count on future work that you don't have a signed contract for. We have some of our signs specd by certain city's and it says signs should be bought from blah blah blah but they go other places all the time.

 

[MikePro]

no way, josé.
pay the designer, artwork ain't free.

You setup at your own expense the last go-around, just to keep all parties happy on your project, but that doesn't mean you now have to cater to another source.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Of course they other print shop was cheaper, they don't have any design time involved. Just tell them the files are theirs after they pay the art charges.