SG-300 TR2 Printing Horizontal White Lines on Cyan

[93Works]

Hello,

My Roland SG-300 TR2 Cyan started printing horizontal thin white banding, it's been happening on and off since the TR2 upgrade and resolved by simply reloading the preset I saved. However I've spent 3 days trying what would typically fix it, plus adjusting different settings including profile, heat, calibration, and material gap adjustment, yet it hasn't gone away. My problem looks exactly like this https://www.signs101.com/threads/vg540-horizontal-lines.165381/ but Cyan instead.

The wiper and felt pads have been replaced and ink pouches are shaken every time the machine asks me to, both cap tops were replaced around the beginning of the year. I also do weekly manual cleanings and the printheads are spotless.

I've attached images of the calibration settings, material gap adjustment, and nozzle checks, everything seems to be in order in those regards. I'd appreciate any advice, these lines are very noticeable in my prints and I just can't send work out like that.

-Cee

 

[balstestrat]

Did you do the damper fill process few times?
It should fix that straight away.

 

[Zoogee World]

If the fill doesn't work, have you tried doing uni-directional and slowing down the print speed?

 

[93Works]

Did you do the damper fill process few times?
It should fix that straight away.

I ran the damper fill process 6 times total a few months ago, when I did the TR2 upgrade, 4 for the upgrade process and another 2 in order to fix the head leaking ink. I just ran the damper fill process again and the issue remains unchanged unfortunately.

If the fill doesn't work, have you tried doing uni-directional and slowing down the print speed?

I tried uni-directional, I also lowered the speed to 700 mm/s on multiple profiles, including the one I typically use, there were no significant changes. However, the lines are slightly less visible on Roland's ESM-PCV media profile, 16 pass and on max impact. I also tried different heat settings, that doesn't affect the issue at all.

 

[Zoogee World]

Have you tried slowing it down to like 300? I know on certain medias I use, I have to do that, but for me, it's more speckling, then banding.

I also find that the GCVP profile works really well on many medias.

 

[93Works]

Have you tried slowing it down to like 300? I know on certain medias I use, I have to do that, but for me, it's more speckling, then banding.

I just tried it, uni-direction 300 mm/s, the issue remains the same. Do you happen to know the average cost to replace the C/M head on a SG300 and what a SG300 in working order goes for?

 

[Zoogee World]

Not in American, but in Canadian, it's $1500 a head, we actually just had to replace both about a month ago. The used machines themselves typically sell for around 10k Canadian here.

 

[Zoogee World]

But it wouldn't be the head, as the test print looks great. My other guess would be the head alignment might be out a bit and might need a tech to take a peak, now that you are locked out of the service menu. I've also asked my Friend who is a Roland tech if he could take a look at the photos you showed and give me his input if he isn't too busy.

 

[93Works]

Not in American, but in Canadian, it's $1500 a head, we actually just had to replace both about a month ago. The used machines themselves typically sell for around 10k Canadian here.

That's strange, 1,500 CAD is about 1,185 USD, I thought the print heads for these were $1,800 USD.

But it wouldn't be the head, as the test print looks great. My other guess would be the head alignment might be out a bit and might need a tech to take a peak, now that you are locked out of the service menu.

I see, I wanted to avoid doing that, but it might be the only choice left.

This printer has been nothing but a regrettable investment and it has convinced me to never buy anything Roland again, that's for sure. I've had both print and cut issues with it since day one, as a matter of fact they even sent an engineer by the name of Thomas Klein to look at the machine. He replaced the optical eye, adjusted the voltage on a board and I think replaced another board on the machine a few weeks after I purchased it, the issues remained but after weeks of being told the printer's performance was normal I couldn't think of anything else to do but let it go and deal with it.

Have you dealt with any significant issues? Is yours the SG or SG2?

 

[Zoogee World]

We've had a fair share of troubles, mainly related to the heads. We have a SG, we bought ours used from the local dealer, so it was fixed up (or so they say). It has been a bit of a headache for us, however, as I've come to understand the machine more, it does have some plus to it. I still prefer the older models myself, as I have 2x SP-300V's that I've pretty much replaced everything on, and can do most things on it with my eyes closed probably, lol. We also have a VS-300i, which is our fastest and best quality printer, even compared to the SG-300. I would say if you do decide to change the printer, look for a Vs-300i, it runs with VW6 and you'll get better results, in my opinion.

 

[balstestrat]

Your head seems fine for alignment so you don't need to align the printhead.
It might not help anything but I would run the cleaning cycles and the damper fill a few more times. Just to see if something is stuck somewhere.
Also of course make sure you have full ink bag.

 

[Zoogee World]

Just heard back from my friend, this is what he had to say: "I do see a bit of waviness in the cyan. You can have a near perfect nozzle test print and still have head issues. I would suggest doing a test print in service mode and looking at the additional second lines. Also the fill pattern in service menu. I would check out the edges to see if there is any overspray"

 

[93Works]

We've had a fair share of troubles, mainly related to the heads. We have a SG, we bought ours used from the local dealer, so it was fixed up (or so they say). It has been a bit of a headache for us, however, as I've come to understand the machine more, it does have some plus to it. I still prefer the older models myself, as I have 2x SP-300V's that I've pretty much replaced everything on, and can do most things on it with my eyes closed probably, lol. We also have a VS-300i, which is our fastest and best quality printer, even compared to the SG-300. I would say if you do decide to change the printer, look for a Vs-300i, it runs with VW6 and you'll get better results, in my opinion.

I see, I've figured out that I constantly have to adjust the calibrations to keep most prints acceptable.

I regretted buying the printer the moment Roland said they needed to replace parts. That happened a few weeks after I purchased it, which was brand new, I'm glad I didn't have space for the 640 and gave them more money. The fact that it takes constant(sometimes daily) tinkering and waste of material/ink to keep the printer performing somewhat acceptable can be enraging at times, especially when I fall behind on orders. As you probably know, for the SG you can't do much without calling a tech, Roland is definitely more concerned about squeezing out more money.

As for replacing the machine, I am going to get it fixed if I can't fix it myself, and sell it. It's seriously making me miserable and hate the job I love and enjoy doing, this is what I do for a living so it's also stressful to say the least. I am looking at replacing it asap with a Mimaki, do you have any experience with those?

I won't replace it with another Roland. Apart from the constant problems, they locked service mode for a machine I outright own. The pretty much mandatory TR2 upgrade made no difference to the print quality, its grainy as always, it just caused more problems. I also don't have warranty so it's not their problem if I break something, there's just no credible reason for locking service mode. Now because they locked service mode, I have to wait a week or two and pay a tech a couple hundred dollars to just diagnose the problem. Either that or I pay Roland $100 for phone tech, not sure what the chat rate is but there is one for that too I believe.

As for the waviness, considering it's so insignificant that we both missed it, would that cause such significant lines? Does it also mean it's time to replace the print head? I can't access service mode, so I can't do much more.

Your head seems fine for alignment so you don't need to align the printhead.
It might not help anything but I would run the cleaning cycles and the damper fill a few more times. Just to see if something is stuck somewhere.
Also of course make sure you have full ink bag.

I've run the normal, medium, and powerful cleaning processes a few times now. Do they need to be full? They're about half way, I would have to buy a new set.

I really appreciate every suggestions you guys, they would cost me a couple hundred from Roland.

 

[Zoogee World]

I can't really say about if that would cause that much trouble, but he's never steered me wrong before. As for the fill up, I think he means to actually do the damper fill from the menu, not a cleaning, but typically, if it's at least half full, you should be okay. I don't have any experience on Mimaki, aside from hearing horror stories about them as well, from my tech friend, where he works, they sell both and he services both. He's always told me, as he knows me, that I wouldn't care for a Mimaki, as they can be very finicky and have their own extra steps to do certain things, just like Roland, but in a different way. What I would suggest, is that you go to a showroom that has operational printers, and try them out, do a few jobs (they'll usually let you, if they know you plan on buying something), that way you can see if it works for you. I can really understand about the frustration, as when the printers aren't working, it does cause a lot of stress. I personally will still stay with Roland, as the SG2's and VG2's have most of the stuff we hate about the SG's fixed. But as for a used Roland, I would still advise you to look into it, at least the service menu is still available and if you go for a VS-i model, you'll get better results and they are easier to fix, apart from the head, which can be a little tricky if you don't do it properly.

 

[93Works]

I can't really say about if that would cause that much trouble, but he's never steered me wrong before. As for the fill up, I think he means to actually do the damper fill from the menu, not a cleaning, but typically, if it's at least half full, you should be okay. I don't have any experience on Mimaki, aside from hearing horror stories about them as well, from my tech friend, where he works, they sell both and he services both. He's always told me, as he knows me, that I wouldn't care for a Mimaki, as they can be very finicky and have their own extra steps to do certain things, just like Roland, but in a different way. What I would suggest, is that you go to a showroom that has operational printers, and try them out, do a few jobs (they'll usually let you, if they know you plan on buying something), that way you can see if it works for you. I can really understand about the frustration, as when the printers aren't working, it does cause a lot of stress. I personally will still stay with Roland, as the SG2's and VG2's have most of the stuff we hate about the SG's fixed. But as for a used Roland, I would still advise you to look into it, at least the service menu is still available and if you go for a VS-i model, you'll get better results and they are easier to fix, apart from the head, which can be a little tricky if you don't do it properly.

I see what you mean, I did run the damper fill procedure by pressing enter and plus while turning on the power. I also remembered that the print head and control board were both replaced in October 2020, I emailed the tech asking for advice on what I need to do next, at this point I just need it fixed as I'm running behind on my orders.

I'm going to take your suggestions about going to a show room. I think there's Mimaki dealer close by, this time around I will actually know what to look for and what questions to ask. I don't mind having to take extra steps as long as the prints are an acceptable quality (no banding or extreme grain), and that the machine is capable of making accurate cuts.

*Update: The print head only had a 30 day warranty, sheesh. I'll update once the issue is fixed.

 

[Zoogee World]

I see what you mean, I did run the damper fill procedure by pressing enter and plus while turning on the power. I also remembered that the print head and control board were both replaced in October 2020, I emailed the tech asking for advice on what I need to do next, at this point I just need it fixed as I'm running behind on my orders.

I'm going to take your suggestions about going to a show room. I think there's Mimaki dealer close by, this time around I will actually know what to look for and what questions to ask. I don't mind having to take extra steps as long as the prints are an acceptable quality (no banding or extreme grain), and that the machine is capable of making accurate cuts.

*Update: The print head only had a 30 day warranty, sheesh. I'll update once the issue is fixed.

Great, sounds good.

 

[weyandsign]

You say it's resolved by reloading the preset. Are you printing with Versaworks? If you are using Versaworks, go to the start menu, find versaworks, and right click on "Initialize Application" and run as administrator. Caution: This will wipe out all your settings. But it may solve the problem.

 

[93Works]

You say it's resolved by reloading the preset. Are you printing with Versaworks? If you are using Versaworks, go to the start menu, find versaworks, and right click on "Initialize Application" and run as administrator. Caution: This will wipe out all your settings. But it may solve the problem.

Yes, but the preset on the machine not the software. It would resolve the issue but no longer does. I also took your advice but reinstalled Versaworks 6 completely instead. I used a different ethernet cable too, unfortunately the issue remains the same. Considering the tech had issues with a board, when the print head was replaced in October 2020, I think it's a faulty board or ribbon cable issue. Like I mentioned in a previous post, parts of the machine were replace and adjusted a few weeks after I bought it, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, isn't 30 days a ridiculously short amount of warranty for a print head? I remember being told to expect the print heads service life to be at least 3 years.

As for any progress, the tech wants to replace the cap tops first. I'm sure that's not the issue considering the nozzle test print, but I have to do that first in order to move forward with the troubleshooting.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I bought one of the very first Roland VG-640 machines when they were first introduced, I had only ever owned Roland printers before that and they had all been great workhorses.

After 6 months we were having issues similar to yours, the tech came out about 10 times with various ideas from Roland, none of them worked, Finally convinced Roland the machine was faulty and they sent me a new one.

New one arrives and from Day 1 it couldn't cut accurately on runs longer than 16 inches, but the print quality was good. Again the tech came out at least 10 times to try to fix the cut issues, by the time Roland agreed to swap it yet again the same print issues had started to appear.

Roland send the 3rd VG-640 machine, and this time the dealer decided to keep it in their shop for a month and run it so they can make sure it was working fine, as soon as they installed it it was printing horribly. The tech tried to blame it on some mysterious electrical interference in our shop until I told him all our previous printers sat in the same spot and worked perfectly for years.

In the end the dealer (not roland) decided to take the printer back, refund my money and let me move on. I believe if it was up to Roland they would have run out the clock on the warrantee by sending the tech to tinker with it every week, then tell me to pound sand as soon as the warrantee was up.

We ended up buying an Epson S80600 and have been very happy with it, I will never own another Roland machine after how I was treated by them, Our local Roland dealer was amazing and did a great job looking after us, letting us run jobs on their demo units etc. But Roland themselves were less than worthless when it came to support.

 

[93Works]

I bought one of the very first Roland VG-640 machines when they were first introduced, I had only ever owned Roland printers before that and they had all been great workhorses.

After 6 months we were having issues similar to yours, the tech came out about 10 times with various ideas from Roland, none of them worked, Finally convinced Roland the machine was faulty and they sent me a new one.

New one arrives and from Day 1 it couldn't cut accurately on runs longer than 16 inches, but the print quality was good. Again the tech came out at least 10 times to try to fix the cut issues, by the time Roland agreed to swap it yet again the same print issues had started to appear.

Roland send the 3rd VG-640 machine, and this time the dealer decided to keep it in their shop for a month and run it so they can make sure it was working fine, as soon as they installed it it was printing horribly. The tech tried to blame it on some mysterious electrical interference in our shop until I told him all our previous printers sat in the same spot and worked perfectly for years.

In the end the dealer (not roland) decided to take the printer back, refund my money and let me move on. I believe if it was up to Roland they would have run out the clock on the warrantee by sending the tech to tinker with it every week, then tell me to pound sand as soon as the warrantee was up.

We ended up buying an Epson S80600 and have been very happy with it, I will never own another Roland machine after how I was treated by them, Our local Roland dealer was amazing and did a great job looking after us, letting us run jobs on their demo units etc. But Roland themselves were less than worthless when it came to support.

I couldn't even get my dealer to check the machine, they told me the print & cut quality was acceptable, I told them my $80 Epson inkjet printer could print better quality and I could hand cut stickers with better precision. As a matter of fact I still have all of the test prints and cuts. These were small jobs by the way, I only dare to run 20" prints at a time because I got tired of wasting so much material running full jobs.

I had to contact Roland directly in order to get any help, and even they made me jump through a bunch of hoops, which included having to contact other dealers for help first. Every dealer I contacted would ask if I bought the machine from them and when I would say no, that's where the conversation would end. After a dozen emails and phone calls they sent contact info of, I believe, a level 1 tech or something like that. There wasn't much help from him either because he was in Texas. Finally, Thomas Klein came into the picture, I was told he was an engineer in charge of the SoCal region or something like that. He tried to recalibrate the machine and asked me to run a job. I showed him exactly what was going on, even after he recalibrated everything. He said the optical eye and a board needed to be replaced, about a week later he did that, but the issues remain the same. As for the print quality, he also said it was normal due to the profiles and material. I understand those can be a factor, but the amount of grain in Roland's own color pallets and test image prints is unreasonable, even with the TR2 inks. I've used different materials and profiles too.

The printer does very few good runs. I spend more time recalibrating/troubleshooting the machine, and sometimes wasting yards and yards of material trying to get the job right. I remember there was one order where I wasted 8 yards trying to get it right, I was furious. I have the owners manual memorized from reading is so much, I even bought a magnifying glass to get the calibrations right, Roland could probably use a microscope and not get the calibrations any more perfect.


Ultimately, in my eyes, Roland used SG/VG as an experiment to see how far they could go with using cheap parts and whatnot. I've seen entry level machines from other companies, cheaper than this $13,000 SG300, with more features and better reviews. I regret making this purchase every single day, so much. I'm with you, Roland won't ever see me purchase another piece of equipment from them again.