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ShopVox - frustration beyond imagination - no way to list labor as non-taxable.

Discussion in 'Business Management' started by SignProPlus-Chip, May 5, 2016.

  1. SignProPlus-Chip

    SignProPlus-Chip Active Member

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    So it feels like it's taking forever to set up products etc.. in ShopVox. It's pretty cumbersome on the front end but it did look as though everything was coming together. Well that was until I noticed sales tax was being generated on every component of a product, including labor. Which isn't exactly legal to do here in SC as well as many other states.

    So now, hopefully I can set up my labor as a separate product and insert it as an individual line item in an invoice. If it looks like it works, then I still have to go in and now change all of my formulas for my products, then test them all again to make sure they work properly....Oh Joy!

    This is something they REALLY need to address. As far as I know, every other piece of software out there can accommodate for taxable and non-taxable items that are grouped into a product.

    Anyone else have this issue?
     
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  2. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    We are supposed to be converting on the 27th... I'm nervous now since I keep reading all these issues which is the whole reason we are switching from SignVox. It sounds like it's following the same path as SignVox now and will never be fully fixed.
     
  3. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    Yeah that's not really good to not be able to specify certain things as non-taxable. I do know some states do consider humans to be a taxable product but many like you mentioned, here in SC we are not a taxable product. :)
     
  4. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Is it true that in order to use the authorize.net gateway through them we would have to pay them and our merchant processor?
     
  5. TonyC

    TonyC Guest

    Frustration...

    Frustration doesn't even begin to describe our situation. I have spent endless hours/days/months setting up our system to only have it changed or rendered completely useless because another useless feature was added or some "code" was changed. We used signvox for over a year and have now been on shopvox for over a year.
    I threw in the towel 3 weeks ago; in process of switching. BETA Team One out (drops mic).
    I wish you the best of luck.
     
  6. Signed Out

    Signed Out Very Active Member

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    Kind of in the same boat as you. What are you switching to?
     
  7. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Greaaaattt, this does not instill confidence that shopvox is worth the conversion.
     
  8. Kevin-shopVOX

    Kevin-shopVOX Active Member

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    So you are saying if you make a banner the labor to make it is not taxable? Seems according to a quick Google search, that SC tax law looks at labor to manufacture a product as taxable, but the labor to design it and install would not be since they are considered services. This would need to be separate line items that are non-taxable and for what I know, is how all other softwares like shopVOX handles this. Why? Because Quickbooks rules the world. If you sync to quickbooks with mixed and matched tax rates in one line item it doesn't know what to do. It simply taxes it all or not at all based on taxable or non-taxable statuses. This wreaks havoc for proper tax calculations from within Quickbooks.

    Here is the link I referenced. http://www.taxjar.com/states/south-...do-you-have-sales-tax-nexus-in-south-carolina
    Granted I don't do business there and you do, but it seems to me, that you should be taxing all labor used to manufacture a product but not the labors to install/design that manufactured product.
     
  9. SignVOX

    SignVOX Merchant Member

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    You cannot include in the same line item both taxable and non-taxable items.

    Also when you export this data to Quick Books, quick books does not allow this and 99.9% of US businesses use QB and this wont work. And not only that you cannot have different tax % for different line items in USA, it has to be same Tax % and the line item is either taxable or non-taxable only. In Canada you can have different line items in same transaction with different tax%.

    And for all the others, that is how it was in signVOX and that is the same thing in shopVOX w.r.to taxes.

    So in your current system you were able to have one line item have both taxable and non-taxable charges? How did that data get exported to QB? Because as far as we know QB will not accept in one line item both taxable and non-taxable it is per line unless this changed recently that we are not aware of.
     
  10. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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  11. SignVOX

    SignVOX Merchant Member

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    Yes you are right.

    It depends on what item you are selling.

    You sell a Banner as an end item - the estimation includes labor charges also - but the whole thing is taxable since you are selling a Banner - not banner material and then labor to make it.

    Install/Service - these are strictly labor oriented - and yes these should not be taxable (as per local tax laws) and they are separate products and show as separate line items on a transaction.
     
  12. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    The only point I wanna make is with QuickBooks, you can most certainly make whatever you want taxable items or not. You must input it correctly. Give it the correct "type" such as taxable items, sales tax item or whatever, then attach the appropriate "tax code", and last be entered into the correct "account" bracket. Once you enter the information, the program will do the rest for you.

    Don't be putting another program down, just because you don't understand it..... or know the present tax laws.


    In addition, at least in PA, installing a sign, banner or just about anything else, is 100% taxable. If it is personalty, it is most certainly taxable. Only those items which will result is disrepair and/or a void of a wall, or some area which cannot be removed is non-taxable.
     
  13. Zendavor Signs

    Zendavor Signs Member

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    I am a recent convert of Signvox to Shopvox. We were on Signvox for about 3 years. Shopvox is still pretty new software, so it is a little rough in some spots. Be prepared for the conversion. If this is a peak time of year for you, I would hold off. The first week or two will be pretty rough. There is a number of little nuances that happens with the data conversion, especially to products/pricing. The good news is I am very glad I switched. There is a lot more power in setting up products for pricing and materials use. We are too small to utilize the workflow features right now, but I can see it as being very useful. You can PM me if you want more info.
     
  14. dale911

    dale911 President

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    I have to say that I looked at the demo for sign of twice and also some of the other software out there. I ended up buying Cyrious which, while it took some time to get the setup completed, they had step by step instructions as well as fantastic tech support. I purchased the software but if I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the subscription based as the tech support is included in an ongoing basis and they charge a lot on a yearly basis for support and updates if you own the software. I like it because it bases the building of signs into "parts" and you can set it up so that all parts are accounted for. It also has the most common materials included and pre-pre-priced so that it's just a matter of changing the pricing to the current vendor price and you are off to the races. The modules for different types of signage, i.e. Cut vinyl, printed, dimensional, channel, outsource, textiles, etc can be turned on and off as needed for what you are offering.
     
  15. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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    Gino, I don't think Quickbook has the capacity OP was asking at all. Unless for example, a 4' x 8' MDO sign pricing, you list all part of Component to 1. MDO cost plus(T), 2. design cost(NT) 3. Ink cost +(T), 4. Printer depreciation (?) 5. Overhead(?)...etc. These are for the software to calculate to a price. (I am not aware QB can do that, if I am wrong, please point to which version of QB).
    .
    Yes, Shopvox can do it that way as well as Quickbook, Cyrious. But why would we want to do that?

    We only want to list 1 item for that: 4 x 8 MDO, $550, taxable. That is all customer need & want to know.
     
  16. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    QuickBooks can do it if you have premier manufacturing edition. In that version you can input line items for 1 product and set Taxable/nontaxable... But I digress that's typically beyond the scope of most signs shops
     
  17. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Okay, let's suppose you're correct. In your scenario, you just charge exactly the same for every MDO 4 x 8 ??

    I don't know about you or others, but I figure just about every possible cost into a quote........ how much paint, time to do it, prepping time, how much vinyl or how much lettering time, how much weeding or transfer tape, my time, computer time and input, layout, design, employees time and cleaning it or laminating it. Some 4 x 8 might have one or two words, while the next dozen might have the Gettysburg address on it. They all get figured according to the specs, not some magical number in a software package. Therefore, any line item you can attach whatever cost and if it's taxable or not.

    What happens if you give a discount or you wanna make it one or two sided ??

    Nope, afraid your method doesn't allow for any wiggle room.



    And yes 2CT it is the Premier whatever edition. Upgrade every 3 years, I believe.
     
  18. signguy 55

    signguy 55 Member

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    Can someone explain to me how tool rental places can charge sales tax?

    You rent a chain saw for half a day and have to pay tax?

    My CPA told me you can break down any finished product labor and materials if desired. Most oil change shops do this, separating the labor from the materials and shop supplies, but it is a lot more work to invoice it like that. Of course for installations I always keep it separate anyway.
    If a customer complained about sales tax I always told them "I'm just doing what my CPA told me to do."
     
  19. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Tool rental or any other type of rental of tangible property is look at as a "lease as a sale or purchase".
     
  20. SignProPlus-Chip

    SignProPlus-Chip Active Member

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    UPDATE!

    I sat around most of the weekend inputting more materials and products into ShopVox and I have to say, it's coming together nicely. Basically after talking to Rao, the issue with having taxable and non-taxable items bundled in one product lies it the ability to properly import invoicing into QB. No problem though, in the end I created a two products for labor. One for installs and one for all the creative stuff, graphic design etc... Now I just add the labor product and select my labor type, click a box if a lift is needed and any other options.

    Once you get a firm grasp on exactly how the formulas work, and the difference between a formula and a filter (could use some explanation in their knowledge base), it's pretty simple to set up even if time consuming.

    I'm running mock quotes as I add product etc... to ensure it all works right but so far these are just a few of the pricing templates I have set up:

    Routed signs - click your substrate, paint or no paint etc... and price a sign in seconds

    Channel letters - type in my letter qty and height in inches, BOOM instant price

    Real estate signs - pick your substrate, add vinyl, click on post size needed. Need a V style sign?, just click second side and pick the length of your third post, DONE.

    Super Efficient. We are transferring over from solely using QB and estimation software. Previous I was the only person in the whole shop putting together estimate, handling the work orders and invoicing. While QB did everything I needed, the process can sometimes be slower, and nobody else could really utilize it. Even if I showed staff how to use QB for estimates/invoices, there would also be the issue of them having access to the company's financials. ShopVox solves a lot of problems and looks like it will be quite beneficial once up and running on a day to day basis.
     
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