neato
New Member
Sign Drawer maybe?
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Sign Designing - Quote of the day...
- Thread starter neato
- Start date
Sign Drawer maybe?
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
The old original term was 'sign writer'. Even in a completely digital environment this is a far more apt description than 'sign designer', an affectation if thee ever was one.
As I think back most every time some client asked if I could design something for them I always replied "I can lay out something" which is exactly what I would do.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Hahahaaaaa..... design is just a word. Call it anything ya want.
Just remember, when you layout a sign, you aren't designing a danged thing. You are only arranging elements within a particular set of parameters. White space, contrast, color combinations, weight and various other things come in to play, but you aren't designing anything as most of you are dreaming. You are just using the same elements over and over, with just a different name and subject matter.
Ya know the saying..... same ol' same ol'...... that's putting a sign together, not designing.
Just remember, when you layout a sign, you aren't designing a danged thing. You are only arranging elements within a particular set of parameters. White space, contrast, color combinations, weight and various other things come in to play, but you aren't designing anything as most of you are dreaming. You are just using the same elements over and over, with just a different name and subject matter.
Ya know the saying..... same ol' same ol'...... that's putting a sign together, not designing.
Being create and having hundreds or more customers and making signs is just that...... making signs. You aren't designing nothing, just utilizing good judgment and smarts.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I call myself a "Chief-Senior-Master Sign Layout Engineer"
And now that I binged out on Narcos, your name "Neato" reminds me of...
Johnny Best
Active Member
By your Amigo avatar you call yourself a creative. Does that mean you rest on the seventh day.
bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Rather it's imprecision, no one designs signs. No one no how. 'Sign writer' may be a bit archaic but brushes or computer, the process is the same. Bridges are designed, machinery is designed, software is designed, even type faces are designed. Signs are not.
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bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
dictionary
[dick-shun-airy]
noun
1. A compendium of descriptions of word usage. A dictionary is descriptive not definitive. Moreover it doesn't describe words, it describes word usage. Using a dictionary entry in an argument about the definition of something is fallacious. There is only one word a dictionary is capable of defining and that would be 'dictionary'.
neato
New Member
So Bob, you can genuinely say with a straight face that what this guy does should be called signwriting?
http://www.letterboxsigndesign.com/
Is someone who creates business cards or stationary a designer? What would you call them?
Or are you only referring to shops that slap vinyl on coroplast and banners?
http://www.letterboxsigndesign.com/
Is someone who creates business cards or stationary a designer? What would you call them?
Or are you only referring to shops that slap vinyl on coroplast and banners?
Johnny Best
Active Member
Neato: if you want to call yourself a designer or creative then do so. Don't worry about what bob tells you.
You are not going to win an argument with him, you are not smart enough, he is a word designer.
You are not going to win an argument with him, you are not smart enough, he is a word designer.
DerbyCitySignGuy
New Member
You're wasting your breath, man. The earth will be dead and cold and these guys will still be around arguing about whether the sun is dimmer or less bright.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Going from one extreme to the other does not necessarily make one correct.
Is a dentist a doctor ??
Is a surgeon a doctor ??
Is a gas attendant a mechanic ??
Is a judge a lawyer ??
Is a kid in school a student ??
What is with all the nitpicking ?? Be a designer, if ya want. Call it whatever ya want. Why stop at Cor-X and banners ??
I've been making signs since 1972. Some were paper posters, some were shocards, while others were 4' x 8's and still did trucks. None of that sh!t was designed. We were signmakers. We did layouts and hand sketches. Never heard of a sign designer, except for ad agencies. However, that was a title they created for themselves, as they had no real hands-on experience. We made signs. If someone wanted a unique monument or crazy shaped channel box, we built it after we gave drawings for approval.
Designer.......... Designing Women is all that comes to mind, when I hear that terminology.... (the old television show, that is).
Is a dentist a doctor ??
Is a surgeon a doctor ??
Is a gas attendant a mechanic ??
Is a judge a lawyer ??
Is a kid in school a student ??
What is with all the nitpicking ?? Be a designer, if ya want. Call it whatever ya want. Why stop at Cor-X and banners ??
I've been making signs since 1972. Some were paper posters, some were shocards, while others were 4' x 8's and still did trucks. None of that sh!t was designed. We were signmakers. We did layouts and hand sketches. Never heard of a sign designer, except for ad agencies. However, that was a title they created for themselves, as they had no real hands-on experience. We made signs. If someone wanted a unique monument or crazy shaped channel box, we built it after we gave drawings for approval.
Designer.......... Designing Women is all that comes to mind, when I hear that terminology.... (the old television show, that is).
Marlene
New Member
If a customer comes in and you design a logo that can be used on a sign and for other uses, you are a sign designer. If a customer comes in with a design his nephew did on his 'puter and you figure out how to make it work on a sign, you are a sign designer. If a customer comes in and asks for a sign made and installed with no drill holes in the wall or glue and you figure out how to make that happen, you are a sign designer. If you are a sign writer, you are from the 1800's and congrats on your long and unnaturally long life.
spectrum maine
New Member
or if your a franchise...STICKER JOCKEY
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I sorta get the argument Neato, except for one thing - you don't want to be a "sign designer"
Not because of some random imperious statement(s) on the forum, or some vain attempt at making an incontrovertible posting where arguing makes you a pompous a$$ or not... no... "sign design" is too interpretive. It also doesn't pay enough.
For instance: maybe this happens to you... So a few months ago some family friends come over to my parents house, and ask what "Ricky" does for a living... I strolled in at that exact moment. mom and dad says, he's a "sign designer"... "Oh a 'sign designer' you say? like banners and lettering on trucks?" And they go "YEAH!"... not quite mom!
Then, take a look at the "average" sign work going on... I see no design.... just mash-ups of type, copy, color and space. So if someone is admitting to not being a sign designer... I believe them! It's when they say they are one, I get a little leery. After a few postings, it becomes very clear that a few "sign designers" here are one trick ponies, or obvious, quite a few can't design/signwrite/layout themselves out of a wet paper bag - even if they went to school, have awards and been written up in trade mags...
But since all you (Neato) do is design - you market yourself in a way that makes the client/customer understands what you do. If it's "sign designer" so be it, but I think you are more capable than that. Since all my services are pre-fabrication and installation and I also do standard graphic design - I use terminology that helps my client understand what I offer. It's not "sign designer" and it's certainly not "experiential graphic designer"... it may be what I do, it's not who I am...
Not because of some random imperious statement(s) on the forum, or some vain attempt at making an incontrovertible posting where arguing makes you a pompous a$$ or not... no... "sign design" is too interpretive. It also doesn't pay enough.
For instance: maybe this happens to you... So a few months ago some family friends come over to my parents house, and ask what "Ricky" does for a living... I strolled in at that exact moment. mom and dad says, he's a "sign designer"... "Oh a 'sign designer' you say? like banners and lettering on trucks?" And they go "YEAH!"... not quite mom!
Then, take a look at the "average" sign work going on... I see no design.... just mash-ups of type, copy, color and space. So if someone is admitting to not being a sign designer... I believe them! It's when they say they are one, I get a little leery. After a few postings, it becomes very clear that a few "sign designers" here are one trick ponies, or obvious, quite a few can't design/signwrite/layout themselves out of a wet paper bag - even if they went to school, have awards and been written up in trade mags...
But since all you (Neato) do is design - you market yourself in a way that makes the client/customer understands what you do. If it's "sign designer" so be it, but I think you are more capable than that. Since all my services are pre-fabrication and installation and I also do standard graphic design - I use terminology that helps my client understand what I offer. It's not "sign designer" and it's certainly not "experiential graphic designer"... it may be what I do, it's not who I am...
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neato
New Member
Thanks for having so much confidence in me Rick.
I totally agree with everything you said. I was thinking about that the other day. A son of one of my friends wants to learn design. I don't think he really has the talent or skills at this point to work for a design firm, but really, even if you only know how to run design software and have no artistic ability, there's a place for any "designer" or design school grad in the sign business. I don't mean that to be disparaging in any way, but many shops are more concerned about production than design and just want someone who knows enough about design software to manipulate fonts and hit print or cut.
But as for me, I'm going to stick with Night Watchman as my title.
I totally agree with everything you said. I was thinking about that the other day. A son of one of my friends wants to learn design. I don't think he really has the talent or skills at this point to work for a design firm, but really, even if you only know how to run design software and have no artistic ability, there's a place for any "designer" or design school grad in the sign business. I don't mean that to be disparaging in any way, but many shops are more concerned about production than design and just want someone who knows enough about design software to manipulate fonts and hit print or cut.
But as for me, I'm going to stick with Night Watchman as my title.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Are you guys STILL talking about this???
neato
New Member
Join in, it's fun!