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Simple die-cut quote

J

john1

Guest
Hey guys, I did a quote for a company that was getting their die-cut vinyl decals from another source. The sizing is 16x4", on calendered vinyl. Weeding is pretty basic, It's a long outlined box with simple 1 line of text in the middle.

I priced $3.17 each for 225, They came back with a invoice from a previous company of $1.88 each.

Did i overbid this job or am does it seem in the ballpark?

Thanks!
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
I'd be right in the middle. At $1.88 the other guy is making around $50 an hour which wouldn't satisfy me but it may well satisfy him.

Materials = $60
Materials Markup = $60
Labor = 6 Hours x $75 = $450

Total = $570

Total Each = 570 / 225 = $2.53
 
J

john1

Guest
Looks like i wasn't far off at all, Thanks Fred.

My labor time in signvox had accounted 5.75 hrs of labor, So pretty darn close on my time.
 

HulkSmash

New Member
2.70 ea here.

Originally i'd be at around 3.90ea, but i give a heavy qty discount.
I'd say your price is fine.
 

tsgstl

New Member
I'm real close to the winning bid wholesale, half again not wholesale
I do a lot of cut vinyl decals
Weeding that job (the way you describe) should be half of what you guys are saying. Unless your labor costs are including cutting the vinyl. Jobs like this I usually cut overnight.

EDIT: no discount here. As long as our minimum is met we don't do discounts.
 

tsgstl

New Member
has a lot to do with font and size.
If serif font smaller than 1" then yes maybe more than 6 hours
if arial black 1" then less than 3 hours

i never straight cut, never needed to
 

tsgstl

New Member
Just out of curiosity.... are those time estimates including plotter time?

As for you justifying not charging for plotter time because you "cut it at night".....does cutting at night not use power or put wear and tear on your equipment? :rolleyes:

I don't know what labor consist of with other shops. I don't consider print time or plot time as labor costs. Once I send to my plotter or printer I start working on something else. I consider setup for my plotter or printer as labor. As far as it running at night or not is a bonus, I'm not taking that into consideration when pricing, that's just what I try to do. When I price out cut vinyl decals I see what costs will be involved and go from there. Based on material and ease of weeding/plotting which normally go hand and hand

I have no clue if I'm correct or not that's why I am here.
 

tsgstl

New Member
What does that mean?

like after I mask I just rough cut. Sorry not sure what term to use. I don't us a straight edge to separate my decals.

edit, sorry I didn't mean to clog up this thread. I'll admit I have lots to learn but I have no problem throwing myself out there.
 

tsgstl

New Member
I don't wanna be a thread pirate either....but - running your equipment during of after business hours shouldn't affect how the end product is priced. I would never charge less for something that's printing while I'm at home watching hockey. As for not cutting decals straight - I don't get why you wouldn't just do it properly. Doesn't take any longer to use a straightedge or guillotine to produce a professional looking product.

Not trying to be a d*ck....just saying.

Yeah I totally agree, that's why I said it was a bonus. I was just stating that when I have piece of cake plots I send them in bunches when I go home, I don't charge differently because of this.
But as for my question, are you guys considering print/plot time as labor?

I have been making decals for the same guy for over 15 years now. Never once has one of his customers complained about not having a clean edge when cutting. I just don't see a reasonable explanation to start doing it now. Don't get me wrong I have done it, but I charge more for doing this and he knows it. It is only been requested once or twice that I can remember. I separate each piece by .2" plenty enough to eyeball a straight enough line.
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
Unless your labor costs are including cutting the vinyl. Jobs like this I usually cut overnight.

Just out of curiosity.... are those time estimates including plotter time?

As for you justifying not charging for plotter time because you "cut it at night".....does cutting at night not use power or put wear and tear on your equipment? :rolleyes:

The biggest point you are missing here is return on investment. Your investment in the equipment and the software to run it, setting it in place and getting it to run correctly, learning to use it, keeping it running correctly and your general overhead are all items that are covered by the revenues generated when that plotter runs. Just like any employee, it must provide enough revenue every day and every month to cover its cost and make a profit.

If you were in a situation where you were charging someone with their own vinyl and operator for access to your plotter (and the computer and software to run it), what would you charge per hour? Forget the "it depends" stuff for friends and just crunch the numbers. 252 work days a year x 8 hours a day = 2,016 hours a year. Pulling example numbers out of the air, if your total overhead per year is $90K including your salary, then 90,000 / 2,016 = $44.64 per hour overhead expense. Add to that your annual profit (your salary covered in overhead) of let's say $30K per year, 30,000 / 2,016 = $14.88 and you have a price of $59.52 per hour you should charge at a minimum for the running of the plotter. Of course, your numbers will be different and there is no allowance for other equipment, but the point remains the same ... you make your money when your equipment runs.
 

tsgstl

New Member
The biggest point you are missing here is return on investment. Your investment in the equipment and the software to run it, setting it in place and getting it to run correctly, learning to use it, keeping it running correctly and your general overhead are all items that are covered by the revenues generated when that plotter runs. Just like any employee, it must provide enough revenue every day and every month to cover its cost and make a profit.

If you were in a situation where you were charging someone with their own vinyl and operator for access to your plotter (and the computer and software to run it), what would you charge per hour? Forget the "it depends" stuff for friends and just crunch the numbers. 252 work days a year x 8 hours a day = 2,016 hours a year. Pulling example numbers out of the air, if your total overhead per year is $90K including your salary, then 90,000 / 2,016 = $44.64 per hour overhead expense. Add to that your annual profit (your salary covered in overhead) of let's say $30K per year, 30,000 / 2,016 = $14.88 and you have a price of $59.52 per hour you should charge at a minimum for the running of the plotter. Of course, your numbers will be different and there is no allowance for other equipment, but the point remains the same ... you make your money when your equipment runs.

If that was the case I probably would charge $100 per hour. It has never been posed to me that way but off the top of my head that's what I would think. Which is funny because the reason I brought up the question in the first place is because I was thinking that if your labor costs include printer/plotter time, it would make your labor costs too high. But my strictly labor cost is around that. So it totally blows my first thought out of the water.
The only thing I can think of that changes this formula is difficult weeding and how much distance the blade will travel cutting a job on my plotter. The printer is much easier to gauge time wise. That is why I charge more for more copy, smaller text, serifs. Sometimes there is a blurry middle ground between me and my customer on this. But the good outweighs the bad and both of us come to agreement in all cases.
I have always treated my printer/plotter running time as my overall cost, lumped in with utilities and rent whatnot. I adjust my cost of goods every year to help in this matter. And on certain jobs that I deem necessary I raise the price of the end product to reflect extra time. I never thought about including printer/plotter time as labor but I think I will rethink that.
 

royster13

New Member
There is no return on investment on sales you do not make......If that works for you because you have enough work, price accordingly.....If you are hungry, price it to make a sale.....
 

Circleville Signs

New Member
There is no return on investment on sales you do not make......If that works for you because you have enough work, price accordingly.....If you are hungry, price it to make a sale.....

This is, quite literally, some of the worst advice I have ever seen. It is THIS type of thinking that has crushed pricing in our industry. Oh...It's a slow month. Let's sell 2'x6' banners for $25!!!! YAY!!!! If you sell on price, you will DIE on price.

Terrible, TERRIBLE, advice...
 

royster13

New Member
This is, quite literally, some of the worst advice I have ever seen. It is THIS type of thinking that has crushed pricing in our industry. Oh...It's a slow month. Let's sell 2'x6' banners for $25!!!! YAY!!!! If you sell on price, you will DIE on price.

Terrible, TERRIBLE, advice...

I eat very well so I price accordingly......But do you tell the guy that has no food on the table to feed his family to stick to principals and eat next week?....
 

HulkSmash

New Member
I eat very well so I price accordingly......But do you tell the guy that has no food on the table to feed his family to stick to principals and eat next week?....

i'm beginning to take everything you say with a grain of salt. You go ahead and price things enough to live pay check to pay check. Have fun with that. I'll enjoy my boat, traveling, big house, and nice cars
 
J

john1

Guest
Guys guys, I think i should stop making threads if they all get out of hand.

We are all great people and arguing isn't solving anything.

I am glad i wasn't too much out of line in pricing since i am still learning a ton with my new software and have trust in the guys on the forum to guide me the best they can.

All in all, I think what Roy is trying to say is price accordingly as you normally do if your making sales and keeping your business afloat but if your struggling bad, Go down some on your profit to make the sale and have some bills paid. If your normally marking up materials 4x, Go down to 2x for example if it means eat or not. Not saying that is the correct way to do it but if your struggling you have to do what you have to do sometimes but you can do what you gotta do without low balling the industry.

I respect the industry very much and was that guy who under-priced things at the start but thanks to the great people at 101 i have learned a ton on pricing with a appropriate mark up on materials and my time involved as well as value of the sign.
 

boxerbay

New Member
sorry i'm late on this thread. I would've been at 2.66.

problem i see here is you did not ask to see what material the competitor quoted it on.

i just saw a work truck with cut vinyl lettering and it was all wrinkled up and shriveled from the sun. I walked up and gave him my card. I ask him to call me when he is ready to get it done properly. i asked how long did he have it. he said about 1.5 year. wow. Some people are using those no name Korean vinyls and dropping low quotes.

You should have asked them what material was it quoted on? Your reply should have been "We only use high quality 3M, Oracal with a 5 year life" I have turned many price shoppers around like this.
 
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