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Size compensation

peavey123

New Member
oops spelt compensation wrong. haha

Hey All, Been a few years since I've been on S101. I'm using photoprint DX which is basically a stripped down version of flexi. made by SAI. with a mimaki JV33 and a Summa D140R cutter for print and cut jobs.

Anyways, I'm losing roughly 1/16th of an inch every foot when I print. I can adjust this in the RIP via Setup --> "output size compensation" my only issue is when I have this enabled...my prints are fine but it throws off my contour cuts. Almost like the cutter is not adjusting for the size compensation.

Any idea how to resovle this?

Thanks.
 

Tim Aucoin

New Member
Oops... sorry. :doh: I can't help with your issue. I thought this thread was about something totally different when I read the title... my bad! :rolleyes:
 

Jack Knight1979

New Member
Usually if there is a size problem one can compensate with a large boat or sports car. I've heard that will make up for it.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.
 

peavey123

New Member
Usually if there is a size problem one can compensate with a large boat or sports car. I've heard that will make up for it.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

haha omg. Not an issue here. . . . . . .wierdo...

Anyone who can actually help? ...got a buncha comedians up in here...
 

petesign

New Member
Funny that your contour cuts are also off that same amount then. Are you using registration marks (read by your plotter) to make your cuts?

I have the same problem, and have checked my media comp over and over, the only thing I can figure is the heating and cooling process is somehow making my print stretch before print, and it becomes shorter once it cools. (shrinkage!) I dont use the same rip as you, so can't address it via software, but check your media comp. Hope this helps some.
 

Salmoneye

New Member
I try and compensate with oil and soothing music. If that doesn't work there is always the "Hey look there's a bird!".
 

peavey123

New Member
Funny that your contour cuts are also off that same amount then. Are you using registration marks (read by your plotter) to make your cuts?

I have the same problem, and have checked my media comp over and over, the only thing I can figure is the heating and cooling process is somehow making my print stretch before print, and it becomes shorter once it cools. (shrinkage!) I dont use the same rip as you, so can't address it via software, but check your media comp. Hope this helps some.

I thought of that being an issue but no. media comp is fine. I use OPOS registration for print/cut files. The cutter detects the registration marks without issue.

The only thing I can think of that may be the issue is with having the software control the cutter option (knife pressure, speed etc) rather than the cutter itself which is how I'm setup now...You know how you can override the cutter via production manger?
 

peavey123

New Member
okay, everyone with a less than average sized junk exit this thread. This is a print/cut issue not a thread to help your self esteem. haha
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Funny that your contour cuts are also off that same amount then. Are you using registration marks (read by your plotter) to make your cuts?

I have the same problem, and have checked my media comp over and over, the only thing I can figure is the heating and cooling process is somehow making my print stretch before print, and it becomes shorter once it cools. (shrinkage!) I dont use the same rip as you, so can't address it via software, but check your media comp. Hope this helps some.

Nonsense. The registration marks are heated and cooled right along with the rest of the print.

If a contour cut is off it's most likely something other than printer size compensation and/or the media changing shape.

Understand just how the registration marks work and you'll understand why the problem is somewhere else. Here's how it works...

When you create the job in Flexi the software locates the registration marks in an exact rectangle surrounding the actual print. The four corners of this rectangle are known to the software. When the job is printed along with the registration marks these marks not longer describe an exact rectangle. This is because of various mechanical tolerances, temperature, whatever, in the machinery doing the printing.

When you load the print into the plotter the marks are read and their current physical location now describes a space that may or may not be a perfect rectangle. As long as these points are known it is a matter of some simple arithmetic to map any point in the original perfect rectangle in the design to whatever the actual space defined by the marks on the print might be.

When you use the automatic marks and sensing this is most likely done in the software. When you use manual marks unknown to the software, this is done in the plotter. It really doesn't matter where the mapping is done, only that it is done.

This is why you can load a print into the plotter skewed and it will still contour cut accurately.

The only assumption made in this process is that any distortion will be linear and, other than some horrible hardware or software malfeasance, it will be.

Thus it should be obvious that no matter how the print is distorted, be it feed compensation, temperature, or divine intervention, the plotter will accurately map every point from the original design onto the physical space defined by the actual registration marks.

One thing to notice is just how is contour cut off. Is is correct close to the first mark (lower right) and does it get worse the closer to the fourth mark (upper left)? Or is the error the same anywhere on the contour cut?

If the latter the you need to adjust your plotter's sensor to blade distance. If the former then you probably have some sort of media feed problem in your plotter.
 

mnapuran

New Member
Guess no resolution on this eh?

I've had this problem forever as well. Every time I try the adjustment/compensation it doesn't seem to do a thing.

This becomes a big issue on long prints with contour cuts. I actually had this problem today on a job, so it's funny I see this thread.
 

SightLine

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Couple of things I've come to do over the years. I do not let Flexi send any command to the cutter. Both on the Mimaki CG-130FX we had nor our current Summa S160T. Only thing Flexi sends is the actual cut data. All settings regarding speed, knife pressure, etc are set on the cutter using the presets.

Two other things we reset about twice a year are the size compensation on the printer and the cutter. Not just the feed comp on the printer, there is a baseline feed comp to set in the service menus to essentially zero the user mode feed comp. On the cutter it will likely also have a similar function. On both the printer and the cutter this adjustment does use a bit of material and the longer you have it make the adjustment the more accurate it will be for longer runs. Both with print (or cut) a rectangle of the size you specify which will be a known size for the machine. Then you measure that down to the hundredths and tell the machine what the actual printed or cut size is.

Twice a year might be overkill but these are mechancal machines and things like belts, rollers, bearings, etc do wear over time causing these machine internal compensations to vary.
 
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