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Skateboard Heat Transfer Material

SGC

New Member
WOW! you obviously have thought this through a lot... However, if everyone just accepts the status quo then no improvement ever happens. There was a time when it was totally normal and the best practice to send your kids driving without a cell phone to call home with! imagine that time! If people had merely said things were good enough the way they were, we would not have the cell phone...

I am sure Bane thought they had the perfect system when they laminated prints inside the fiberglass resin....

and if your industry has some line to what perfection is, why do the trucks stull have dynamic instability? you only get high speed stability by overtightening the friction damper - why not simply use a dynamically stable interface with the ground? I have seen them made by literal rocket scientists in the 70's, but their time was mostly elsewhere (who do you think drove the technology for cell phones?) - a dynamically stable truck feels the same to the riders, but you can leave the dampers out and ride loose and fast.

No, your industry is not driven by perfection, you are driven by what you can make a buck for like most humans there is also a "we fear change" attitude.

good luck, you absolutely have a system that works for you. I am also positive that a more durable print can actually be made - but the reason not to make a better one is that no other company makes a better one, so you do not have to make one for competition. However, let's say that someone creates a less expensive print that can withstand 5 years of constant grinding on cement without a mark, I bet your whole industry will shift how they print seemingly overnight.
But the thing is, you don't need a more durable print for a street skateboards - they have a in service life expectancy of 2 weeks to 3 months for someone who is a regular, skilled skateboarder. When I speak on how the print feels in action, I truly just mean how the board slides on rails, concrete, metal and so on.

If we're talking the need for a durable, that mostly lies with the longboard industry. They have a ton of cool ways to make boards that yield a really durable print. Since the board is meant for riding, not grinding, they can do anything they want when it comes to how the graphic is applied. Resins, sublimation to polymers that are laminated to the bottom ply, all sorts of cool stuff.

As for weird printing tech in street skate decks, your normal skateboard you take to the skate park, it's more interesting. My market research, both as a producer and as a retailer (I had a retail store as recent as 2017), along with conversations with those higher up than me in the food chain doubles down on the customer is very reluctant to try new things. The market spits out new stuff, new ways to spin the wheel if you will, and it almost always ends up being pulled from the product line within a year or two, while the traditionally made skateboards stays a forever constant. Introductions of new board tech - using things other than north american maple - was largely ignored by the customer at large, as every single one of these attempts to reinvent the wheel came at a cost increase to the customer. They always do. There's a printing tech called "slick", where its a sublimated thin polymer fused to the bottom of the board, this was introduced in the early 90's I believe and has saw come and go status ever since, to very little fan fare. This created a very durable print, but added weight to the board, and for some, made the surface slide too much.

In the last couple years only one attempt to reinvent the wheel in terms of a commercially made and publicly sold street skateboard has been successful. Pretty much everything everything before it was a commercial and marketing failure.

This leaves the small and large companies in quite the pickle when it comes to R&D efforts. If the customer doesn't want more, just a certain price and a certain threshold of quality, why not double down on that. There's obviously flaws in this mentality, but everything follows the market you're in.

Have you ridden a current generation truck produced by Independent, Venture, Thunder? There is no such thing as the perfect truck, because every skateboarder develops a style and a way-to-ride that dictates how they want their board to feel and perform. Each truck and truck manufacture, in terms of the trusted, tried and true name brands in the marketplace designs their models for specific performance reasons. Being a jack of all trades doesn't work here.
 

Stacey K

I like making signs
This thread got me thinking of the old days in the late 80's. I'm trying to think of that popular brand of skateboard that was more expensive so not a lot of guys had one. I just googled...I had NO idea there were SO MANY BRANDS of skateboards! Didn't find it. I loved my Vans skater shoes from back then...the best shoes ever!
 

BigNate

New Member
cool, you stay in your groove and do your thing... I will look at improving the future, and yes they may be some flops on the way. there must be both types for this to work. I know lot's of skaters take offence at having the razer scooter crowd grouped in, but to the public the skateboard and scooter share a significant market - there was (and still is in lesser) a huge demand for something different. look at the crazy sticks with a hinge in the middle and casters on the ends... to the public these are in the same market.

How boring the world would be if everyone just sticks to the status quo "because you don't need a more durable ______""
 

SGC

New Member
This thread got me thinking of the old days in the late 80's. I'm trying to think of that popular brand of skateboard that was more expensive so not a lot of guys had one. I just googled...I had NO idea there were SO MANY BRANDS of skateboards! Didn't find it. I loved my Vans skater shoes from back then...the best shoes ever!
There's so many now! Thousands of different brands. It's a fun market. Love Vans, has been my shoe of choice for the last 5 years or so.
 

SGC

New Member
cool, you stay in your groove and do your thing... I will look at improving the future, and yes they may be some flops on the way. there must be both types for this to work. I know lot's of skaters take offence at having the razer scooter crowd grouped in, but to the public the skateboard and scooter share a significant market - there was (and still is in lesser) a huge demand for something different. look at the crazy sticks with a hinge in the middle and casters on the ends... to the public these are in the same market.

How boring the world would be if everyone just sticks to the status quo "because you don't need a more durable ______""
Well, if you figure out a better way to do something, have a ball! We very much exist in two different worlds, so our view points do not and do not need to line up.

I've left you and anyone else who reads here a lot of very useful and valuable crumbs of information in relation to skateboards and how they're printed. Information that doesn't exist on this forum, nor many other places on the web. I did my part in helping hopefully blossom the next person looking to mess with skateboards have some idea how this all works, as I had to scrape and dig for it all my by lonesome over the last 11 years.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
Thank you for all the good information you have been kind enough to share in this discussion.

I do some longboard griptape printing using aqueous inkjet BOPP w/permanent PSA, outdoor-rated textured laminate film,
and Skate-Dek from Surfsource for anti-slip.

I was curious about whether you had used Skate-Dek and what you thought of it,
or for that matter what you were using for anti-slip on your printed griptape
such that the image is not terribly obscured?
 

Boudica

I'm here for Educational Purposes
I apologize in advance, I know I should post this on another thread, but reading this thread... this song keeps popping into my head.

 

SGC

New Member
Thank you for all the good information you have been kind enough to share in this discussion.

I do some longboard griptape printing using aqueous inkjet BOPP w/permanent PSA, outdoor-rated textured laminate film,
and Skate-Dek from Surfsource for anti-slip.

I was curious about whether you had used Skate-Dek and what you thought of it,
or for that matter what you were using for anti-slip on your printed griptape
such that the image is not terribly obscured?
Hey hey.

I have never used that product. Our product has always been direct to surface UV printed, as that's the best way to do it for presentation and image quality.
 

SGC

New Member
Thank you for your reply.

May I know what you do for anti-slip?
Jessup UltraGrip.

UV is very expensive to get into, and surface printing the anti slip tape is VERY dangerous to the printer and the print heads, which if it's a quality machine, cost thousands.

If your current or projected business model can't handle a $1,000-$5,000 mistake at any point, at a moments notice, I strongly suggest not considering.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
Jessup UltraGrip.

UV is very expensive to get into, and surface printing the anti slip tape is VERY dangerous to the printer and the print heads, which if it's a quality machine, cost thousands.

If your current or projected business model can't handle a $1,000-$5,000 mistake at any point, at a moments notice, I strongly suggest not considering.
Is most of the printwork you do based on what I would refer to as
classical line-ish/cartoon-ish skate art?

The reason I ask is because the anti-slip particle density on Ultra-Grip is so high
that it is ok for line-ish/cartoonish art, but not so for images of greater detail
like natural landscapes or other more photo-oriented imaging.
 
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SGC

New Member
Is most of the printwork you do based on what I would refer to as
classical line-ish/cartoon-ish skate art?

The reason I ask is because the anti-slip particle density on Ultra-Grip is so high
that it is ok for line-ish/cartoonish art, but not so for images of greater detail
like natural landscapes or other more photo-oriented imaging.
We do mostly custom one-off work, so the designs submitted are a little bit of everything.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
We do mostly custom one-off work, so the designs submitted are a little bit of everything.
That's interesting. I hoped to be able to use Ultra-Grip, largely because as you
have said- there is an expected performance by skateboarders in particular,
but for very detailed high resolution imagery I found it unsatisfactory.
 

SGC

New Member
That's because you're using a non surface curing ink technology. I've attached a photo of what we can achieve on UltraGrip via direct to surface, 6 color UV.
 

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bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
Thank you for that nice image of your printwork.

I was wondering- are you using a CMYKcm or CMYKOG as a six ink configuration?

Also- do you clearcoat on top of the print, or just print and out it goes to the customer?
 

SGC

New Member
Thank you for that nice image of your printwork.

I was wondering- are you using a CMYKcm or CMYKOG as a six ink configuration?

Also- do you clearcoat on top of the print, or just print and out it goes to the customer?
I'm not aware of any individual color options in UV yet, but it's a CMYKlclm

UV curable ink, in regards to anti slip tape, when it leaves the print head, it falls into the grains and groves of the surface, then the light hard cures it to the surface. Nothing is done after this. It's cut and shipped to customer.

Graphic grip tape sold in skate shops by the big brands is printed one of two ways:

UV curable directly to the surface of the off-the-shelf grip tape sheet - this is what's considered the correct way to print the product.

or

Solvent printed to the adhesive liner prior to adding the resin and grain to the liner, so the graphic is underneath the clear resin and grip grains. This is a massive undertaking and is only common in China, as you have to have a legitimate manufacturing facility since you're dealing with mass-applying the grain yourself. This also yields a lower image quality, since you're viewing the image underneath a cloudy layer of resin and grip-grain. But, for facilities in china that mass produce this stuff, the faster speed of production solvent machines, the significantly cheaper ink costs and not having to risk damaging printers and print heads by exposing them to grit-sand make this the low-cost manufacturing choice.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
I hope this message finds you well.

Thank you for mentioning Wooster Products to me. I was pleasantly surprised by their
coarse clear griptape product as to how well it preserved details on some printer
test images I use to check my media configuration work on my print process.
It is not as good as my roll-my-own solution, but it looks like it might be good enough
to let me be a bit lazier/more efficient by avoiding manufacturing. I have attached the
areas of imagery I used for my testing.
 

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SGC

New Member
I hope this message finds you well.

Thank you for mentioning Wooster Products to me. I was pleasantly surprised by their
coarse clear griptape product as to how well it preserved details on some printer
test images I use to check my media configuration work on my print process.
It is not as good as my roll-my-own solution, but it looks like it might be good enough
to let me be a bit lazier/more efficient by avoiding manufacturing.
That's what I love to hear!

I don't know if you're using a rubber laminator or not to marry these, but something tells me a heat assist laminator would get you an even better visual output.
 

bteifeld

Substratia Consulting,Printing,Ergosoft Reseller
That's what I love to hear!

I don't know if you're using a rubber laminator or not to marry these, but something tells me a heat assist laminator would get you an even better visual output.
I don't know if you saw the version of my message with the test images attached, but you may want to look at my message again.

I presently have a GBC slot laminator that has heat assist, so once the roll comes in, I will try that too.

I remain grateful for your comments/help.

May I know your name, which I will keep in confidence if asked?
 
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