small runs of stickers not laminated...suggestions

[CrAkD]

Hey guys,

I picked up a SP300V few months ago finally getting the hang of running it and all the little things to look out for but so many different combinations to try. I came from a gerber edge I print small runs of stickers (100-250) per design at a time. typically band logos most edge to edge black. I know the versacamm prints can peel on the edge if you cut thru the bleed. But I never had this issue with the edge was wondering what the best media to use for this would be. I will not be laminating as it adds too much expense and labor to the job. my clients want the lowest price possible and the quickest turn around. (doesn't everyone? haha).

Right now I'm trying different settings with oracal 3164G with mixed results.

I do have to say tho perfcutting on the versacamm works wayyyyyy better than trying to do it on my Gerber HS+

thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[artofacks1]

Have you tried printing on convex material on your new,machine?

 

[CrAkD]

No is it good for edge to edge stickers? How's the cost? How thick is it? Cause the perfcut saves a ton of time rather than cutting 250 stickers out by hand.

 

[artofacks1]

I use convex on my edge fx and cut with my envision. Convex has different thickness. Check out shopgms.com

 

[the graphics co]

you can print and cut full bleed stickers on the roland, you have to let the ink cure/dry first before cutting to avoid the edge curling. Optimal cure time is 24 hours. I am sure you could get away with less cure time, but test it out at different times to see what works best for your situation. Also, reducing your ink limits will help eliminate edge curling on un-laminated prints.

As for the best material, there are a ton that will work just fine. Most intermediate matte or gloss will do the trick, just need to let the ink cure.

 

[CrAkD]

you can print and cut full bleed stickers on the roland, you have to let the ink cure/dry first before cutting to avoid the edge curling. Optimal cure time is 24 hours. I am sure you could get away with less cure time, but test it out at different times to see what works best for your situation. Also, reducing your ink limits will help eliminate edge curling on un-laminated prints.

As for the best material, there are a ton that will work just fine. Most intermediate matte or gloss will do the trick, just need to let the ink cure.

Thanks for the reply....there isn't a thicker material that would prevent this without waiting 24 hours? Cause that will slow down production time but also add a lot of labor and material to the job having to print extra then reload back into the machine to cut. And to keep the cuts close I'd have to break it in multiple pieces....kind of wastes the brilliance of a print and cut machine.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Try general formulations concept 222. Works great for this exact thing. Print & cut, set dry time to 5 min in versaworks, cut full bleed with no curling. The material is 6mils thick, and have had no issues doing this. It's a pretty inexpensive material to.

 

[CrAkD]

Try general formulations concept 222. Works great for this exact thing. Print & cut, set dry time to 5 min in versaworks, cut full bleed with no curling. The material is 6mils thick, and have had no issues doing this. It's a pretty inexpensive material to.

do you know any place that sells it in 30"? I've only been able to find it in 54"

 

[the graphics co]

Thanks for the reply....there isn't a thicker material that would prevent this without waiting 24 hours? Cause that will slow down production time but also add a lot of labor and material to the job having to print extra then reload back into the machine to cut. And to keep the cuts close I'd have to break it in multiple pieces....kind of wastes the brilliance of a print and cut machine.

The thickness of the material isn't the issue. The ink load and the fact that the solvent ink isn't completely dry/cured straight off the printer is the issue. All i can say is if you are running 150-200 sticker runs, you are going to have a similar amount of waste either way you do it. the rolands can't track longer than 6-8 ft without needing a reload and align anyway the material will skew and your cuts will be misaligned.

If you are coming from a gerber these things probably seem completely improbable and stupid, i know, but you are comparing apples to oranges. There are grit rollers instead of a sprocket feed, and sprayed ink instead of foil.

For the time issue you are kinda stuck, you either take the time to cure it, or you have curled edges on your stickers that you can't sell... 1-day turnaround should be acceptable for any job. If not your other option is to have a white border around the stickers, then there isn't any trouble at all.

Also, 24 hours is the suggested cure time, i would test the decals at a number of different cure times, 4 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours and so on. See what works with the materials you have. good luck.

 

[CrAkD]

The thickness of the material isn't the issue. The ink load and the fact that the solvent ink isn't completely dry/cured straight off the printer is the issue. All i can say is if you are running 150-200 sticker runs, you are going to have a similar amount of waste either way you do it. the rolands can't track longer than 6-8 ft without needing a reload and align anyway the material will skew and your cuts will be misaligned.

If you are coming from a gerber these things probably seem completely improbable and stupid, i know, but you are comparing apples to oranges. There are grit rollers instead of a sprocket feed, and sprayed ink instead of foil.

For the time issue you are kinda stuck, you either take the time to cure it, or you have curled edges on your stickers that you can't sell... 1-day turnaround should be acceptable for any job. If not your other option is to have a white border around the stickers, then there isn't any trouble at all.

Also, 24 hours is the suggested cure time, i would test the decals at a number of different cure times, 4 hours, 6 hours, 8 hours and so on. See what works with the materials you have. good luck.

yeah I was going to use the CustomCUT command in versaworks to cut and sheet cut after every 24 i guess if the roland can do 6-8 feet I could do 50 at a time let it dry and reload. but I am afraid to move the pinch rollers....I have 100 stickers drying right now like you suggested but I have some posters and stuff to do....if I move the pinch rollers will it cause the cut to be off tomorrow when I cut them?

also how do I limit the ink? I have been using the MAX impact setting because otherwise the black background looks more grey than black.

 

[player]

If you put the print/cut registration marks on the batch, moving the rollers won't matter.

 

[Doubletake]

RGB Black

Change the black to RGB black or the Roland 21 or 22 blacks. Then you will get black on us prepress. As for drying you can try to up the dryer heat and then just delay the cut in versaworks but sometimes heat affects the cut accuracy. If you are there during production you can shut the heater off while it is on delay before cut.

 

[splizaat]

We print/cut thousands of stickers on 3164G every month without letting the ink cure and no problems. Set your heater temps to around 100F-102F and run em. 3164 is one of the only films we've been able to immediately print/cut without having curling issues. We tried some other brands and the stickers curled all the way off the liner. Walked in and they were a bunch of little curls sitting on top of the liner.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I would think and I don't know but I would think that the curling of the edges is more from the heat applied after the cut is made then the ink not being cured all the way.

 

[CentralSigns]

Some of the cheaper vinyls curl the edges. We try to print lam and cut all our products. Get a higher quality decal run and its more user friendly for the end user. Customers will pay more for a decal that lasts 2 times as long, that way they get 2 times the advertising.

 

[splizaat]

I'd love to have his customers^^^

We sell 3164 5 rolls to one of anything else we stock. Print/Cut unlaminated and our customers keep coming back. Turn your print temps down and it'll be fine. Also, if that doesn't work just print with crop marks let them dry a day then cut them the next day.

 

[eahicks]

i'd love to have his customers^^^

we sell 3164 5 rolls to one of anything else we stock. Print/cut unlaminated and our customers keep coming back. Turn your print temps down and it'll be fine. Also, if that doesn't work just print with crop marks let them dry a day then cut them the next day.

this

 

[d fleming]

Small run full bleed stuff like that I actually use oracal 651 for. It doesn't shrink after customer use at edges like the cheaper digital media does in a couple weeks. I also let it sit overnight before cutting and still use a cheap calendered lam just for s&g.

 

[2B]

try 3641G

also we have seen good results with http://www.instantonemedia.com/


if you have to have a full bleed try to avoid the dark color on the edge (black, hunter green, Dark Navy, Etc...) light color = less ink which means less pull from the solvent within the inks

When you print un-laminated, always print on high speed and try to use CMYK color codes within the design. These two trick will reduce the amount of ink usage and also reduce the amount of curl

 

[Mosh]

I do this on my Roland printers print and cut at the same time on 3640 matte finish oracal. I do wait an hour or two before weeding. Using the matte finish I have never had a curling problem, the gloss finish does tend to curl with full bleed printing. I do loads of decals this way (500-1000 every day).