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Smalts question...

Discussion in 'Hand Made Signs' started by Kottwitz-Graphics, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Kottwitz-Graphics

    Kottwitz-Graphics Very Active Member

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    Sep 25, 2006
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    I have a sign that will use smalts...

    My deadline is closer than I anticipated, and I'm trying to figure out a way to speed it up.

    I have always used 1 shot and smiths cream, mixed 50/50. It usually takes up to 2 weeks to cure out, and I'm wondering if I don't use as much cream, will it dry quicker? Or will I run the risk of premature failure...

    The area that I have to cover is 12" x 77", if that matters....

    Anyone have any insite, or experience?

    Thanks in advance.
     
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  2. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    I just used that exact mixture. I used to use Holdfast Oil/One Shot, but couldn't find Holdfast so went with Smiths.
    I smalted the sign on Saturday, flipped it on Monday, installed on Tuesday. Even though the mix hasn't completely hardened the smalt was stuck good.
    I had to clean some smalt that was showing a ragged edge around the letters and the glue was still rubbery but the smalt wasn't coming off.
     
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  3. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    I used to get asphaltum from Rayco Paint and would mix it with the appropriate OneShot color and Smith's Cream and it made a nice thick but brushable coat for applying the smaltz.

    You can also put a half cap of Japan drier and a little boiled linseed oil in your mixture and it will set up nicely.
     
  4. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Just read the instructions for the Japan drier, like Toad says a half capful is more than enough. I would wait on your Cream Oneshot mixture to dry as needed because if you rush it you might have more of a problem when you go to get the smalts off. Keep the humidity down to help dry times. 24-48 hours is a good window, just make a sample piece to test for drying time. I've wreaked a few trying to rush them, then its a mess.
     
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  5. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    Thanks Johnny Best. I meant to add that if you put in too much Japan Drier, it will actually work in reverse and retard drying.
     
  6. signbrad

    signbrad Member

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  7. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    That smalt's cream says it is not compatible with the new OneShot formula and suggest using Ronan paint.
    Thanks for the link SignBrad, think I will order some and make a smalt backgound on something.
     
  8. Sandman

    Sandman Member

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    I don't use paint anymore. I developed a method that works every time, sign ready to hang in 24 hours, (or less if you want to push it) I use epoxy resin, particularly PB Resin from Coastal Enterprises. Once you go epoxy you'll never go back because the slight increase in cost is offset by total time to apply. I just did a 45 inch by 48 inch sign this morning. It had a large aluminum panel for changeable copy so the smalted area was only around 7 square feet. I used 16 ounces of epoxy with the appropriate color of One Shot mixed in to match the smalts color, in this case Ivory One Shot for light tan smalts, I used 7 pounds of smalt but will recover at least a pound or two when I shake off the excess and with two of us it was done in 25 minutes. I apply the epoxy with a needle nose tip squeeze bottle. I run the tip quickly around the letter and border edges then squeeze some beads of epoxy about an inch apart all over. Then take a cheap brush, you might need a small one for getting between letters, and spread the epoxy all over until it covers your entire background. PB resin will last over an hour during application if it isn't in a huge batch so if I'm doing a 4x8 I will split the epoxy into several bottles to keep it from getting hot and setting up too quickly. The bigger the volume and the longer it sits in the bottle, the faster it will set up. I then shake out the smalts out of small cups or like today I had one pound bags, I just cut off a corner and poured out in a sweeping motion. I lay it on thick to make sure it covers all the epoxy because the next day I flip the sign and pour off the excess smalts onto some paper to recover it for the next job. After shaking out the smalts, with a latex gloved hand I'll gently pat the smalts to make sure it's pushed into the epoxy. PB Resin comes to full cure in 24 hours, but if you really need to push it I'm sure it's firm enough in 12 to 18 hours. Give the back a few wacks when you remove the excess smalts to knock all the loose stuff off. If you are near a Precision Board dealer they should stock the resin. It makes a good bonding epoxy as well for wood, HDU, and anything else that normal epoxy works on. Precision Board has how 2 videos on it but their coverage ratio is way out of wack. I use about 2.25 ounces per square foot of sign which includes letters.
     
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  9. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    I've heard of the epoxy method. Might try it next time since the smalt "glues" are getting hard to find
     
  10. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    When Sandman mentioned using epoxy I remembered making this about 40 years ago above my exterior studio door to fill in space. Just made a MDO base with 1x2 around edges to hold epoxy in from pouring out and stuck shells and whatever was on the beach at the time in the epoxy mixture and then poured sand over the entire thing. After drying picked up and knock off excess. Has held up really well over the years. It does not get too much UV because there is an awning over the entrance.
     

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