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News So Long Latex 792 and LX610 Inks...

Discussion in 'Hewlett Packard' started by InkjetAuction, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    Ummm...... because this venue is hardly the only or even the most authoritative of its kind for our industry. Throw in the fact that most people with any longevity in this trade have or should have by now made lots of friends, colleagues, peers, etc.. and can turn to them for their opinions and experiences to help on a decision. Which we have and done.

    I read most posts related to any subject I'm interested in and for every one member who has had issues with a Roland, there are more that seem to be perfectly satisfied with their equipment for multiple reasons and factors.

    We haven't made a final decision, but we're also in a location that is only served by a few manufacturer's dealers under a 2.5 hour drive and the brands they have to choose from are Roland, Mutoh, and HP. If we want to throw our net to LA or SF, we get more choices, but far higher tech costs if needed.
     
  2. greysquirrel

    greysquirrel Member

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    TruVis hard to swallow...switched back to Ricoh heads from epson...I hear they fixed some of the bugs from v1...I have an issue with the ink delivery..the bag system is not ready for prime time...I have never been a fan of the mimaki line...the jv3 had its day in the sun but they are a service nightmare.
    I don't hide the fact that I am an HP fan boy...easy to troubleshoot, service and maintain...the cost of ownership is less than any other printer in its class....
    As far as the moving on from the old...maybe its me...I don't get attached to anything except my family. I always move into new products and sell the old while they still have value. cameras, phones, computers, printers...
    HP's typical lifespan for products is 8-10 years....those of you with an FB550-750...you are next. The 750 will go first. The 550 may stick around as HP "intro" to rigid substrate printing.
    I believe the 300 series is going on its 4th year in service now....if you've gotten 3-4 years out of your printer it should have paid for itself...
    stop being nostalgic...let go of the past...breath...move on...repeat
     
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  3. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    If your printer hasn't paid for itself in 3 years there's something wrong with your pricing.
    Any extra life after that is cream.
    New printers are better anyway.
     
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  4. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Just wait until someone drops and EMP - you digital guys will be dead in the water and our Gutenberg will still be cranking prints out.
    On the real side we still have an Epson LQ 570e impact printer doing our NCR continuous form checks. Think we picked it up mid 1990's. Just keeps going - can't kill it off.
     
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  5. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    We live in a world where everything has a expected life time. You can see ford pickups form the 50's still on the road... but how many 10-15 year old trucks/cars do you see on the road? And in 10 years... I bet that number drops even further.

    These days stuff is made cheaply and quickly... Its not meant to last. The print quality on todays printers are way better than they were on printers 10 years ago. I'm not saying you HAVE to buy a new printer every 5, or even 10 years... If it works, it works... but I also don't expect companies to support product thats 10 years old.

    Now if you buy a $200,000 Latex flatbed and in 10 years they stop selling ink, thats a bit different. but to expect a $10-15,000 printer to last over 10 years is kind of crazy.. IF it does, again... bonus. IF it doesn't.... Thats expected, in my opinion.

    I paid my Latex printer off in one big job. It took me under a month to pay off my 110, and then I decided buy a 560 j and thats now paid off, just doing side gigs onto of my normal print job.

    Newer printers produce better quality, longer lasting prints. The inks are better for your health, your employees health, and the enviroment... I'm not just talking solvent, I'm sure todays Latex printers have a ton of benefits and are better for you than latex's of 10 years. There are plenty of reasons to upgrade from a 10 year old printer... Of course as a business you don't want to fork over cash you don't have to. But when a $10,000 printer can print faster and better quality than yours... and the inks likely cheaper since it's more in demand... it may be time to crunch some numbers and see if holding onto that antique is actually saving you money, or costing you more in the long run.
     
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  6. Scott at Roland

    Scott at Roland Merchant Member

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    Hi Tim - Thanks for the vote of confidence! I don't go much for bashing competition, not my style, so I will stick to what I know. The VG2 is a pretty rock solid printer and the improvements in the ink are significant. If you want more information or need to find a reseller local to you, please PM me and I can help direct you.
     
  7. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    We are in direct communications with our local reseller and others while weighing all of our options. No product or brand is perfect and careful consideration of all the pros and cons is what a conscientious consumer should do with any major equipment purchase. What we're trying to do is find the best printer regardless of brand for our shop's needs based on all the factors we've prioritized.

    Manufacturers need to stand behind their products and make sure they are responsive and accountable when problems or design flaws are exposed through daily use.

    When we purchased our business we inherited a Gerber UV flatbed which the original owner did not care for the way it's manufacture required and while it's been great when running properly, it has cost a fortune in support and repairs to keep it running. Gerber has abandoned it completely and we now have a glorified air hockey table waiting to be sold for scrap. Thankfully, we knew of this planned obsolescence going in, took great care in its upkeep and ran the hell out of it for five years to this day. If a third party ink supplier existed, we'd keep running it until the wheels fell off.

    My point is that the manufacturers have a duty to design and produce well made, field tested machines that if cared for make our work easier and more consistent to produce with a minimum of problems and work flow interruptions. No company should be held accountable for a customers lack of proper care and upkeep. These are delicate, high precision pieces of equipment that require some level of attention to keep running correctly. That care can be undermined by poor design, lack of responsive support or in Gerber's example a rush to bring a product to market without fully testing it.

    Is Roland up to that challenge in this day and age of throw away mentality?
     
  8. Reveal1

    Reveal1 Member

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    Yep as much as our 25500 was a huge workflow advantage in the day, our 560 is light years ahead in refinement. Proof how far HP has taken the same basic print engine and kept it relevant.
     
  9. Scott at Roland

    Scott at Roland Merchant Member

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    I will speak from personal experience, having worked in the Roland service department for more than 10 years before transitioning to a new role. Roland devices are NOT throwaway printers. In all my time with the company, that has never been presented as a business model or an expectation for any of our devices. It is not unusual to see Roland printers operating for years in the field.

    Ok, I've written about 5 paragraphs of reasons why I believe my company is so great, but they all come across as if I am some sort of televangelist. So, I decided to keep this short and invite you to PM me if you have any specific questions that I can answer or direct you to the correct people.

    But I will leave you with this - I have been in the sign industry since the early 90's. My first printers were Encads! So I've seen a lot and not much impresses me at this point. But every once in a while a printer comes out that impresses me so much that it makes me think to myself. "I should just buy one of these and go back into the sign making business again".

    The VG2 is that printer.
     
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  10. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

    You haven't come off as too much of a cheerleader. Maybe those who have had negative experiences will think differently, but my experiences with your brand have been very positive, so I'm inclined to feel the way I do.

    I can verify my own preference for the brand by the experiences I've had working in multiple shop environments with varying work loads over the last couple decades. Especially given our current situation having purchased a business in 2014 with a 2009 VP-540 that to this day has needed minimal repair and has printed and cut beautifully except for this past week and succumbing to the infamous mainboard "now processing" malfunction.

    Every shop's needs, volume, type, cleanliness, working environment, knowledge base, maintenance levels are different and can affect the durability and reliability of ANY printer greatly.

    We were hoping to get to go to a major trade show with a thumb drive with some typical files to get print samples off of as many machines as possible, but our location and work load along with the urgency of our need hasn't allowed us to do so.
     
  11. ikarasu

    ikarasu Very Active Member

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    Roland's are great. You can't go wrong with one of them.

    But I think you'd be crazy to throw hp put of the ring because a 10 year old machine is getting discontinued.


    I'll give another analogy. My grandma's washing machine is from when she was 30. It still chugs along. She won't replace it because it works. Washing Machines today last 10ish years, sometimes more... But for sure not as long as hers does.

    Does that mean today's washing machines are garbage? I'm sure over the past 40 years she could have purchased 5 machines with the amount of electricity her old one is wasting because it's not as efficient.

    Sometimes just because you can... Doesn't mean you should. The latex machines are like a big oven... I'm sure your throwing more away on electricity running such old tech Than you would if you bought a new printer.

    I know I always sound like an hp fan boy, and that's because I am. For our business they're a game changer. But that doesn't mean they will be for every business, everyone has different needs.

    I personally think a shop that doesn't evolve and keep current with new technologies is a shop that wont get too far. I'm not saying everyone, or anyone running a 260 is a crappy business owner... but it's an 8 year old machine, when do you think it's ok for HP to stop supporting it? 15 years? 20?
     
  12. SignMeUpGraphics

    SignMeUpGraphics Moderator

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    Hey, not bashing Roland overall... our VS-540 was an absolute workhorse for 8 years straight. For such a small sample size of members on here, there appear to be a disporportionate amount of issues since the VG line arrived so it's certainly been a worry.
    When we went new printer shopping, we went straight back to Roland to see how the new machines were and the VG wasn't even operational.... in the head office display center... and they knew we were coming.
    Didn't instill much confidence at the time.
     
  13. burgmurk

    burgmurk Member

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    Having worked on one of those and then moving to the 300 series (yet to get my hands on a 500) this makes sense. They're a lot of trouble, and only get worse as time goes by. Plus if you've managed to keep one running every day for 8 years, i'd hope it's paid for itself many times over, time for an upgrade.
     
  14. Category5

    Category5 Member

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    You realize that there are bags inside those big plastic cartridges, right? Roland simply ditched the plastic box.
     
  15. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    My first 'wide format' printer was a Roland PC60............
     
  16. Scott at Roland

    Scott at Roland Merchant Member

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    The VP was one of my all time favorite printers! It's a workhorse! Also, I just wanted to toss this out there - if you would like to see some files printed on our devices, contact your local dealer. They can arrange to produce print samples of some of your files and get them sent to you. The dealer works with our internal sales guys to make it happen.
     
  17. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    My 11 year old Roland recently went to it's new owner. At some point it will need a CK head, but that's it.

    Running the wheels off a Mutoh now. Why? I take my own advice. Buy from the dealer in your town/area.
     
  18. AF

    AF Active Member

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    The 360 is next...is HP abandoning latex?
     
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  19. Category5

    Category5 Member

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    Mine too!
     
  20. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    i've been singing HP's praises, ever since I made the jump from mimaki solvent to HP latex..... even made a post yesterday about it.
    Kick in the pants for sure, but guess I saw this coming after they dc'd the 250 series' support last year even though I was secretly hoping it wouldn't be so soon.
    Plus-side, there's plenty of 3rd party ink suppliers out there, but quality printheads will hard to come by. Might just stock up to guarantee this machine's-use through 2021, even though I will most likely upgrade before then.

    IMHO, HP is still solid. kinda love what they're doing with incorporating white inks into their latex printers.... still not too excited about having to run "optimizers" on all my prints, but if it improves quality/versatility then I can't scoff too much.
    I look forward to the next sign show that will allow them another chance to sell me on staying with the brand before I jump ship.
     
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